Sampling older gear

[TechnoWeeniePas]

Eh?? That's about the worst thing you can do!!! By sampling the raw waveforms, you are basically taking their 'raw' recordings for further manipulation much like the synth they intended those samples for. Sampling a complete sound/patch is at least limited with what you can do with afterwards.

And think about it for a moment - they have hired and recorded all these different instruments, spent ages (months.... years) editing and perfecting them and then someone comes along and lifts the lot for nothing!

I agree that its not nessisaraly "right"...just that thats how many people I know "get away with it". I dont see it as a huge issue if its no longer avalable anywere. The company is not loosing money if you sample the raw waveforms off of something that they no longer produce or plan on reissuing or reusing. However if you are sampling something that is out there still in any form (like taking samples off of a Roland JV-1080 since some of those waveforms are on the Fantoms) then I see an issue with it. But if its off of something that will never see the light of day again...like the Oberheim DMX than I dont see it being that big of an issue anymore...but that just my personal view on things.

It has been battled out in court and the manufacturer won! Someone (I forget who) sampled the raw waveforms from a Roland MT32 and used them to make their own software GM product. Roland trounced them big time.... and rightly so!

Didnt know that...but did they rip from the ROM directly or make a patch and sample that? Thats the big difference in alot of people eyes. I would love to see reference to the later not working.

I think the best idea...although not very likely for sucess...would be to write the manufacturer of anything that you want to sample and get permission. Even if you dont need it its always nice to have. That goes for movies, music, instruments, etc.

[hollowsun]

I dont see it as a huge issue if its no longer avalable anywere. The company is not loosing money if you sample the raw waveforms off of something that they no longer produce or plan on reissuing or reusing.

That much is true. But that's kind of the problem here - the D50 is once again a current product re-released by Roland in their new V-Synth card. Likewise, Korg's M1, Polysix and Wavestation in their Legacy collection. In theory, these manufacturers could get stroppy if you offered samples from the original products coz they could affect sales of the software versions!

But different companies take different approaches; some are pragmatic about it whilst others (Roland shall remain nameless) will almost certainly go after you if they find out that you are distributing (selling or giving away) anything from a sample-based instrument of theirs past or present.

However if you are sampling something that is out there still in any form (like taking samples off of a Roland JV-1080 since some of those waveforms are on the Fantoms) then I see an issue with it.

Yep! Gotta be careful with that one.

Didnt know that...but did they rip from the ROM directly or make a patch and sample that? Thats the big difference in alot of people eyes.

How so? Stripping down the program to the raw waveforms (even if technically that could be argued as being your patch) and sampling those is effectively the same as sampling the raw recordings from the master tapes from the sampling session!

I would love to see reference to the later not working.

It has happened and people have been chased by certain manufacturers. Even if the 'patches' are original, they use the samples recorded and prepared by the manufacturer! Plus there's the 'intimidation factor' - some small guy selling/giving away samples is unlikely to be able to fight the corporate legal might of a major manufacturer in a court of law

Think of it this way perhaps - you make up a patch on a Fantom/Triton/Motif/whatever and you sample it and you think that's fair game to sell/give away... after all, it is your sound, your creation

But would you think the same with, say, Garritan's String Orchestra or VSL, whatever, and make up a new patch and distribute that with the samples included? I think not. But it's effectively the same!

It's fine to make up new programs/patches with any instrument and do what you want with those but if the samples are included in any way, that is technically an infringement of the manufacturer's copyright.

Of course, I stress that this is not a problem if the samples are for your own personal use (*) - it's only an issue if you plan to distribute those samples in any way.

(*) Sampling a friend's Fantom/Motif/Triton/whatever (even something from Garritan/VSL/whatever) and then using that on a track is technically illegal/piracy but that one is much more difficult (if not impossible) to track. And there could be a counter-argument that it amounts to the same as borrowing your friend's Fantom/Motif/Triton/whatever and using that on your track. Tricky one that! And if the manufacturer were to throw a hissy fit saying that it's a lost sale or whatever, the argument could be levied that it's no different to borrowing, say, a friend's Les Paul.

I think the best idea...although not very likely for sucess...would be to write the manufacturer of anything that you want to sample and get permission. Even if you dont need it its always nice to have. That goes for movies, music, instruments, etc.

Absolutely. Trouble is, as soon as you ask permission, chances are you'll be refused (or asked for money!).


Steve