KVR Audio

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:45 am

I don't wanna have to do that egbert, the track sounds fine with the release the way it is... I'd rather not have to tweak the track (i.e. start re-mixing it) just to get Marquis to "behave", if you know what I mean...

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:59 am

OK - but think about what a 3000 msec release time means when you have several percussive attacks per second - release NEVER completes - you have significant gain reduction operating ALL the time after an initial settling down.

Funnily enough - this seems to be your complaint!

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:10 am

1) 3000ms release times on other software compressors do not produce this "settling-in" effect...

2) The only difference between the two clips is the program-dependent release knob settings... In the first it takes ages to settle in, in the second it takes a very short time... The release setting is identical on both clips, so there's clearly more than the release knob behaviour at play here...

3) The track sounds fine with 3000ms release, so I'd like to keep it that way...

This isn't a "what compressor setting is best?" kind of thread, I'm happy with the sound I've arrived at with this track... I'm just pointing out a weird behaviour of the plugin in the hope that KVR's combined brainpower can figure out what's going on

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:28 am

Hmmm, I don't remember if I ever needed more than, say, 700ms of release time. More like between 100-400ms and for drums even less, but if it sounds good to you then it sounds good to you, but if logic serves me well 3000 or even 1000ms is a looong release time and I don't see the purpose, but as I said - if you like it... and I don't know what kind of music it is, but if percussive or dance music, that's too much.

But as I said: if you like it - leave it like it is [and try reading a bit on compression somewhere, sometime].

I think the Marquis' behaviour is quite normal, especially if using opto [feedback] compression.

Cheers!

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:39 am

mustgroove wrote:2) The only difference between the two clips is the program-dependent release knob settings... In the first it takes ages to settle in, in the second it takes a very short time... The release setting is identical on both clips, so there's clearly more than the release knob behaviour at play here...

Not wishing to demonstrate my mastery of the obvious here but PDR ... um ... modifies release time according to the program material. So at different settings it might increase or decrease release time - multiply it by a factor perhaps.

If you want the behaviour of the compressor to settle down quickly I would have release times closer to the interval between peaks. You could also turn down PDR if you have a clear idea of the release time you want - then you aren't delegating so much of the setting of that parameter to the Marquis.

Your argument about other compressors and the same settings is nonsense. Settings are clearly not trasferrable between compressors when functions like PDR are in play - the behaviour of PDR is going to be highly idiosyncratic on each compressor. Voxengo and Kjaerhus might have quite different ideas about how PDR should work or be emulating products with quite different responses.

Are you being a little stubborn about this? You are implying that Marquis is "broken" to some extent but you aren't prepared to change the settings you have chosen and these seem to correlate to exactly what you are objecting to.

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:42 am

Just been tinkering a bit more...

The settings I've used are a tweak of the "SSL Real" preset that Alexsey provided in a different Marquis thread ages ago... Attack 10ms, Release 3000ms, T3, all program-dependant release knobs to 0.28... I did however change from feedback to feed-forward mode because I prefer Forward mode on the master bus...

Keeping all the other settings as I have them already, but changing release to 1000ms did little to change the "settling-in" curve shown in the first screenshot, it still took a while for the peak levels to settle down...

I'm trying a few more things atm, will post back if anything interesting shows up

/edit Screwed up feedback & forward, corrected now

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:50 am

egbert wrote:
mustgroove wrote:2) The only difference between the two clips is the program-dependent release knob settings... In the first it takes ages to settle in, in the second it takes a very short time... The release setting is identical on both clips, so there's clearly more than the release knob behaviour at play here...
Not wishing to demonstrate my mastery of the obvious here but PDR ... um ... modifies release time according to the program material. So at different settings it might increase or decrease release time - multiply it by a factor perhaps.

If you want the behaviour of the compressor to settle down quickly I would have release times closer to the interval between peaks. You could also turn down PDR if you have a clear idea of the release time you want - then you aren't delegating so much of the setting of that parameter to the Marquis.

Your argument about other compressors and the same settings is nonsense. Settings are clearly not trasferrable between compressors when functions like PDR are in play - the behaviour of PDR is going to be highly idiosyncratic on each compressor. Voxengo and Kjaerhus might have quite different ideas about how PDR should work or be emulating products with quite different responses.

Are you being a little stubborn about this? You are implying that Marquis is "broken" to some extent but you aren't prepared to change the settings you have chosen and these seem to correlate to exactly what you are objecting to.

Yeah I am being kinda stubborn

I'd like to be able to mix the track down with the settings I've already got, but without that settling-in behaviour... I guess that qualifies as stubborn

It may not be a valid comparison, but other compressors don't take that long for peaks to settle down when release times are dialed in at ~3000ms... For example, with the Sonalksis compressor set to same attack/thresh/ratio and with release at 2.5ms (max setting available), the first peak definitely is louder than the rest because of the attack/release settings, but it takes almost no time to settle in after that, whereas with Marquis it takes almost 30 sec for the peak level to become consistent...

And I'm definitely not implying it's broken, I've already said a number of times how awesome the plugin is... I'm just trying to point out an observation I made & get some ideas about it... The consensus seems to be that it's a product of the release time being that long, so I'm going back to at least tinker with some different settings for both release & PDR & see what happens... That preset came from Alexsey himself too (except for my changing to Forward mode) so it's not like I'm dialling in stupidly way-off settings...

/edit corrected - i changed his preset from Feedback (red) to Forward (blue)...

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:53 am

Isn't it actually the feedback mode that is the issue here? The release time ought to affect how fast the compressor can go "up" in amplitude, not down. But I might be wrong, I haven't used Marquis. But feedback modes can lead to all kinds of funny things

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:54 am

Feed-forward or VCA mode have totally different behaviour than feedback or opto mode especially at how long does it take to release peaks, and that's what makes it settle in so long. It's a kind of a very extreme and unusual setting, not a bug, and in this case, your only solution is cutting and copying the loop to keep the sound which sounds good - because it sounds good. There are no rules, but there's no way to keep the exact sound you dialed in and loose that "strange" behaviour.

Otherwise, try going back to feed-forward mode and playing with it a bit more

.

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:58 am

Correction - Alexsey's original preset is in Feedback mode, I changed to feed-forward... Got confused, remembered the colours but not the words

Sorry about that... so I guess it can't be any Feedback effect coz it's been in feed-forward all along

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:06 am

Just tried a quick bounce with Feedback instead of Forward... same deal, no change... PDR all @ 0.28, takes almost the full 31 seconds to settle in

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:06 am

Then put it back into feedback [opto] mode

.

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:07 am

Haha!!! Of course! It's so simple! ;D

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:11 am

No change?

and what's simple?

mustgroove · Post by **mustgroove** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:12 am

Yup no change... and I was making a bad joke about how simple your solution was

Marquis issue - takes a while to "get started"