for future eXT: "Combi Tracks"

[Caleb]

I very much like the idea of being able to layer tracks visually though.

Can make it much easier to program one part to mesh well with another - whether it's an audio and midi part or a midi and midi part.

Regards
Caleb

[glurgle]

which jogs my memory... didn't jorgen say something favourable about editing 2 midi parts together in the same window? how about editing any 2 clips of any type together.

really, I'm just waiting to see exactly how eXT2 functions in the sub-clip department before giving any opinion

[AllenPOPO]

I very much like the idea of being able to layer tracks visually though.

Can make it much easier to program one part to mesh well with another - whether it's an audio and midi part or a midi and midi part.

Regards
Caleb

im going with caleb...i definitely think it would work much better if it can be midi midi, audio midi, audio audio...

if you could have some sort of hybrid editor...with 'lanes' for editing clips that you could stack...that would be cool for editing work....i believe this is also something samplitude does (albeit with just audio parts in whats called a 'take composer')

not trying to turn ext into samplitude or cubase or whatever...but i do seem some definite workflow improvements for me and perhaps others, which will NOT get in the way of anothers workflow... maybe the group busses would eliminate the need....maybe when ext2 comes out i'll have a better idea of if it would add true benefit.

** off topic **
geez this class is boring thanks guys for a little escape.

[plastique]

OK, here goes the second idea I had, basing on the first one, after a bit of reflecting if this would work with the current tracks I came up with this:

- preconditions: tracks should have their own colour (for better distinguishing)


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and works like this:

- new track type: "stack track"
- drag and drop tracks (all but stacks, folders or markers) into (or out from) a stack track (there can be a limit on how many tracks fit into one, which could be set to four or five)
- drag and drop inside the stack hierarchy (little window on the left in the track header) to change position of layer, top-most is also top-most visible
- each track can change percentage of transparency (e.g. here set to 33% each)
- selected track (marked with the black dot) can be edited like usual (select parts, copy, paste ...), also in-track editing works (double-click on the according layer in the hierarchy and the stack will fold like it would with the selected track type outside the stack track)
- basically , selecting a track inside the stack track should do the same as if it was outside (show track attributes etc.)

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remarks to the illustration:
- if the tracks are dragged (by pulling the track header) into the stack track, they then also disappear from the track lanes - here they are just shown for comparison purposes
- the 33% are real values here (layer transparency in the graphic editor), i.e. this is how it really would look like with those values were set



colours and so on should of course be optional, I just took what I found next to illustrate how this system works (could look better ).

BTW, I also thought about if this could be just an additional feature for the folder tracks, but then I think folders shouldn't be limited in content (e.g. can have markers and other folders inside as well).


Disclaimer: This is just food for thought (critics and improvements welcome of any sort)

[jorgen]

nice thread

there other ways of doing this as well.

1) overlaying tracks in the piano/audio editor window. Just select the tracks you want to see at the same time, and in what z-order. (This is may fav)

2) drawing another tracks as "background texture" on a track.

cheers
jorgen

[pHz]

2) drawing another tracks as "background texture" on a track.

similar to that but making more sense to me personally ...

3) a 'copy clip as overlay' right-click command where when you 'paste overlay' somewhere else just pastes the visual appearance of the copied clip as a semi-transparent overlay but doesnt take any of the audio / MIDI data with it ... this overlay would be ignored in terms of selecting or editing the clips it was 'on top' of ... you would however obviously need a 'remove any overlays from this clip' right-click option too ...

slainte rob

[pHz]

or just do it like tracktion does and let you drag any clip onto any track and overlay them (would obviously require dumping eXTs different track types paradigm though) ...

slainte rob

[jorgen]

Pesonally Id be happy if I could just multi-select tracks to show in background when working in-track or popup editor...(and its the easiest to code)

At least my music would look good

cheers
jorgen

[jorgen]

this almost brings us back to plastique idea of a stack track, but actually it could just be an option on a folder track to 1) stack or 2) overlay (showing the other tracks in the bkgnd)

cheers
jorgen

[plastique]

1) overlaying tracks in the piano/audio editor window. Just select the tracks you want to see at the same time, and in what z-order. (This is may fav)

this I find really good and would fit nicely to my second idea.
inside the part editors:
having the choice between the tracks already consisting in the stack track -> select (+ set z-order)

this almost brings us back to plastique idea of a stack track, but actually it could just be an option on a folder track to 1) stack or 2) overlay

I thought about that as well, but you wouldn't really want to have folders inside a stacked folder track (just get too overcomplicated then IMO)
But I'm not too sure, just let this idea breathe for a while ....

BTW the use of the word stack could become slightly confusing ... I personally meant stack as in overlaying the tracks over each other
I'll change my idea to "overlay track" for the sake of simplicity

[pHz]

Pesonally Id be happy if I could just multi-select tracks to show in background when working in-track or popup editor...(and its the easiest to code)

explained like that (wasnt quite visualising your initial explanation properly) it actually sounds a good solution ...

slainte rob

[plastique]

it sounds like a good solution to me too, but personally I'd miss a relation to the exisiting tracks somehow.
This sounds somehow like if you'd only have the choice to select from a list of available tracks ...
How would this work then ? Easy to code doesn't mean it's easy to use.

[grymmjack]

perhaps a feature request...more or less looking to see what ext users thoughts are on this:

combination tracks.

combination tracks being, being able to hold both midi and audio data on the same track (those who are familiar with samplitude are familiar with this)


i think this would be cool because there are times when interesting effects can be acheived...layering a synth line that is midi, with a guitar lick on an audio input....or perhaps singing a melody line ionto your mic before it leaves you, and then looping it back while you play out the melody with a vsti.....


maybe that is overkill and i should just open two separate tracks...but...maybe there are some gains..like for example say you are playing b4 organ for a mellow rock-ish tune and you wanna run it through guitar rig to give it some grunt...you also are playing your cheap ass fender squier strat to compliiment the organ and also wanna run that thru GR. it would be easy to manuever these two parts as there accesible on one track and no need to setup a send of guitar rig just for those two parts...it can be inserted to this 'likeminded' combo track so to speak...hope this doesnt sound dumb...


**sits out penny jar***

opinion time

peace
Allen

i like the visual control afforded to overlay tracks (midi and audio) like tracktion2 can. so if ext could do this, great. however, for your mention of sharing an effect, can't you just set up guitar rig as an aux-send and then share the plug with however many things you want?

i can think of times when it would be very useful to have audio overlaying on top of midi, instead of below it or above it, and vice versa. i've used the feature before in tracktion. it's one of the greatest things about tracktion, imo. no worries about 'types' of tracks, it's all abstracted to one 'track' type and depending on what content is on the track and the tracks configured output, determines it's 'type' -- but you have total freedom in tracktion2.

i'd say +1 for this FR but would be ok with folder tracks too, which could group audio and tracks together. the real power would come for these 'overlaid' tracks audio on midi or midi on audio would be when you did track automation -- only have to automate one track, for example. and if the ext2 shots are any indication, looks like we'll have bezier editing ability for this purpose to automate track parameters like volume, pan, etc?

[grymmjack]

woops. i should have read further down, looks like most of what i said has been covered, and duh ext already has folder tracks. didn't even realize. i have used ext up to this point as a nice chainer/layerer/dohicky and haven't done much with it's seq. didn't even realize folder tracks existed

[bengeorge]

I like this idea, it kinda goes along with the other requests for multi-layered MidiClips...

Acutally, what about a general ability to "layer" any type of track, envelope-midi-audio with opacity like photoshop? "PageUp" to cycle through the top editable layer, or whatever.