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nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:34 am

intothedawn wrote:so for an Am chord aeolian ionian and phyrigian would be the best modes for that chord? If this is correct Would the other modes always imply a different tonality played over and Am chord unless they were kind of mixed with aeol ion phyrig as a kind of suggestion before resolution?

also i've noticed on virtual piano chords http://www.allsang.net/java_linkside/to ... hords.html

A,C,D,Eb,F,G,G#,A#

A aeolian mode has 8 different notes but the others have only 7(one repeating an octave above. has this got something to do with the harmonic and melodic minor scales?

No. The preferred mode for any minor chord would be Dorian. Alternatives would be Aolian or Phrygian. The Aolian mode has 7 notes the same as the Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian and most other western modes.

intothedawn · Post by **intothedawn** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:24 pm

nuffink wrote:
intothedawn wrote:so for an Am chord aeolian ionian and phyrigian would be the best modes
No. The preferred mode for any minor chord would be Dorian. Alternatives would be Aolian or Phrygian. The Aolian mode has 7 notes the same as the Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian and most other western modes.

so D Dorian is the best mode to play over an A minor chord or maybe you mean A dorian? or just any dorian it doesn't matter?

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:27 pm

intothedawn wrote:so D Dorian is the best mode to play over an A minor chord or maybe you mean A dorian? or just any dorian it doesn't matter?

It matters a great deal. A Dorian is the preferred mode to play over A minor. D Dorian is the preferred mode to play over D minor.

215 Productions · Post by **215 Productions** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:06 pm

Into...

It would be difficult to 100% say what modes would work of just the Am chord, as it depends what chord(s) are to follow? But why wouldn't they... depends on your ears and what you want. Depending on the chord progression, a certain scale mode may work, sound better, or not. As far as the modes (scales) mostly you will have 7 notes, 8 counting repeat of the tonic. In a pentatonic, you will have 5. Regardless of natural, melodic or harmonic minor... you will have only 7 notes.

Am, natural = a,b,c,d,e,f,g,a,g,f,e,d,c,b,a
Am, harmonic (raised 7th) = a,c,d,e,f,g#,a,g#,f,e,d,c,b,a
Am, melodic (raised 6th & 7th ascending, natural descending) =
a,c,d,e,f#g#,a,g,f,e,d,c,b,a

In all honesty though, this is all just theory and not always relative in modern music, unless (all in my opinion) doing orchesral type of work. If all sounds good to your ears, go with it. Again in my opinion, most hip-hop/rap music today rarely uses this chordal type of theory and is written in a very linear way... about lines, thoughts, and the feel. It seems to work very well as we hear on the radio?!?!? I really doubt they are considering what chords, scales, etc are being used as much.... but rather going with what sounds good. Though, I agree, understanding theory and musicianship is very evident. Still a craft that is done very, very well.

Pick up a jazz theory book and see what others have used over certain chord progressions. That may be the best examples of how diferent modes are used and influenced in modern music. Again, though dependent upon what style you want to achieve.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:48 pm

Brian,

I'm sure you mean well but, frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about.

215 Productions · Post by **215 Productions** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:49 pm

At the risk of debate, how's that? Educate me.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:50 pm

215 Productions wrote:At the risk of debate, how's that? Educate me.

Certainly, start here... http://www.chordspace.com/Intro.htm

215 Productions · Post by **215 Productions** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:52 pm

If want, we can have a friendly talk about what I do and don't know, if want privately and keep it off the forum. Feel free to contact me directly via my email address if interested. For now, I will abort this forum for Into's sake of seeking information.

215 Productions · Post by **215 Productions** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:59 pm

Oh, nuffink, here is my personal email if not listed.... I look forward to hearing from you.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:03 pm

I'd remove that e-mail address if I were you. It'll only be of interest to the spambots.

215 Productions · Post by **215 Productions** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:04 pm

Done.

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:55 pm

Nuffink,

What are your thoughts regarding functional harmony in modal music?

This is something Iv been considering quite a bit lately. Obviously the dominant tonic relationship isnt present in alot of the modes. But are they other satisfying progressions that can be modal substitutes for V-I? I think there probably is (be it a with a weaker resolution).

TB

intothedawn · Post by **intothedawn** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:20 pm

thanks for makeing the effort peeps, much appreciated, don't be too angry with each other.

tee boy counterpoint seems pretty important even if its technically not counterpoint, i read that main thing to look out for is - when your moving to unisons/octaves in parrallel motion as it sounds bad except for maybe the last bar or 2.

i've been looking out for this in my music and realise that this was one of my problems now i do my best to avoid it. its the knowing that something isn't quite right, your not sure what it is so you try something different(but blindly), now I don't have to do that.

What would you say supercedes this in terms of importance regarding counterpoint?

strav100 · Post by **strav100** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:38 pm

Blandness in simple chord progessions is usually done to poor voice leading and lack of embellishing notes.
Parallel 5ths over-emphasize a particular part and make chord progressions sound awkward - however, they can sound good if you want 'block-like' shifting of harmony e.g Debussy, Ravel, Vaughan Williams - tons of 20th century composers use par 5ths, even 9ths, 2nds etc.

Learn the harmony and counterpoint rules first - and then break them - you'll have far more understanding of what you are doing.

Learn all the sound of intervals and chords (maj/min/7ths/9ths etc.) and get them in your inner ear - do some ear training.

Remember, you can write any combination of notes to make up a chord and this can go to another any combination of notes. You can write anything! - but let your ears be the judge.

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:52 pm

215 Productions wrote: It would be difficult to 100% say what modes would work of just the Am chord, as it depends what chord(s) are to follow?

Right. I've always thought that this stuff about modes is a sham so that people can write endless magazine articles and get paid for it.

If your Am chord happens in a piece in F, then you play an F scale. If the Am chord is in a piece in C, you play a C scale. If you play an Am in a piece in, oh, F#m, then you modify the F#m scale to suit the chord.
I simply refuse to learn the names of the modes this all corresponds to.

And if you think it sounds cool then you play an extra sharp or flat wherever you damn well feel like it.

Victor.

music theory/musical cliches/formula/tips etc