Introduction to Chromatic Harmony

[JumpingJackFlash]

Oh? How about bII,b3,#5, meaning flatten the II giving you Db (in C), flatten the 3, giving Fbb, and sharp the 5, giving A#.

I think that would get confusing, in bII,b3, would the b3 mean a flattened 3rd with respect to C major (diatonic), or a flattened 3rd with respect to Db major (the key of the flattened second)? - You said the latter, but it would be easy to interpret it as the former.

But why is bII based on a flat root, and bII7 on a non-flattened root? Somehow adding the 7 changes how you interpret the root note.

The seventh is a separate issue and has nothing to do with the root. - In one case, the b refers to the root and fifth, in another the b refers to the fifth only. - Like I said before, I apologise for the inconsistency, the Numeral should not be taken too literally.

Ultimately, there is no perfect system that will work in every situation all of the time, whilst avoiding unnecessary confusion.

[nuffink]

Hey jack, I suggest you read my Basic Jazz Theory. It might give you a clue as to where you're going wrong.

[VicDiesel]

Oh? How about bII,b3,#5, meaning flatten the II giving you Db (in C), flatten the 3, giving Fbb, and sharp the 5, giving A#.

I think that would get confusing, in bII,b3, would the b3 mean a flattened 3rd with respect to C major (diatonic), or a flattened 3rd with respect to Db major (the key of the flattened second)?

I'm not sure I understand the question. What would the two resulting notes be?

Let's assume a piece in C major.

Victor.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Oh? How about bII,b3,#5, meaning flatten the II giving you Db (in C), flatten the 3, giving Fbb, and sharp the 5, giving A#.

I think that would get confusing, in bII,b3, would the b3 mean a flattened 3rd with respect to C major (diatonic), or a flattened 3rd with respect to Db major (the key of the flattened second)?

I'm not sure I understand the question. What would the two resulting notes be?

Let's assume a piece in C major.

Ok, I didn't think that one through properly, it was a bad example. But let's say it was bII, b5 instead.

Ok; assuming we're talking about a chord built on Db:
Sticking purely to the diatonic C major scale, the other notes would be F and A, so flattened 5th would mean Db, F, Ab.

Instead, if we temporarily shift the focus to the key of Db major, the other notes would be Db, F, Ab, and flattening that 5th would mean: Db, F, Abb.

In other words, one way has Ab, the other has Abb.

[VicDiesel]

But let's say it was bII, b5 instead.

Ok; assuming we're talking about a chord built on Db:
Sticking purely to the diatonic C major scale, the other notes would be F and A, so flattened 5th would mean Db, F, Ab.

Instead, if we temporarily shift the focus to the key of Db major, the other notes would be Db, F, Ab, and flattening that 5th would mean: Db, F, Abb.

In other words, one way has Ab, the other has Abb.

Right. You'd have to state a basic assumption, as I did in "rule 2": take notes from the basic scale.

Victor.