The "Sunlight" Production Diary

[Kim Lajoie]

When I feel a song is herky jerky and not feeling right but you still beleive in the song, redo all of the musical elements with a completly diff outlook on the song, completly remix it. it gives you a whole fresh perspective and you maybe want to fuse both the ideas together back into one cohesive piece again.

It might come to that. I'm already starting to imagine doing this as a fast guitar-rock thing. I will start again if I just can't get this to work. However, I strongly believe I should try the best I possibly can to make it work before scrapping it and starting again. If nothing else, it's more satisfying to save a dying song than to give up and try a different direction.

About fusing the two directions into a single whole... I think that sounds like a hell of a lot of fighting, and I don't think it would bring a particularly cohesive result. Music is cohesive when there are shared themes, shared motifs, shared musical material. The more diverse a piece is, the less cohesive it can be. Likewise, the longer a piece is, the more cohesive it can be (for a fixed amount of musical material). Of course, music can be too cohesive when there's not enough musical material (or development of musical material) for the length of the piece.

Fusing two different songs (or two different "remixes" of the same song) into one would result in a much less cohesive piece of music if the length remained the same. For such a fusion to be cohesive, this song would probably have to blow out past five minutes. And then we have the problem of having two song's worth (up to seven minutes, depending on how you count it) of instrumentals, but only a minute of vocals to ride over it.

Like I said, it would be a hell of a fight to get it to work.

TBH, hearing day 3, its sounding like it has no soul, no element that justifies the cool singing style of the vocalist, the music is just there...it has no emotion or impact. I know obviously this is only day three, but I don't mean to give you this dose of negativity, but....the vocals are really good and deserve that edge and of course, thats just my opinion.

I agree - at this stage the rest of the song isn't really doing much. There needs to be a better-defined contour of intensity. Expectation and fulfilment. Anticipation and surprise. Stability versus instability. Contrasts in texture, density, momentum. Drama!

The good news is that I'm still learning and there's a long way to go. The bad news is that I'm still learning and there's a long way to go.

-Kim.

[leahzero]

Kim, you must have a great degree of patience (and courage!) to post these and respond to everyone's suggestions. Is it impacting the way you work at all?

Good luck on getting the instrumentation to gel with the (awesome as usual!) vocals.

And you have the raw vocals, so there's always the opportunity to revisit this piece and do a remix if all the ideas don't fit cohesively into one mix. (Speaking of which, have you considered doing a call for remixes here on KVR? The other guys who've done it seem to have had some success--just a thought.)

[Kim Lajoie]

Kim, you must have a great degree of patience (and courage!) to post these and respond to everyone's suggestions. Is it impacting the way you work at all?

Not any more than the simply time commitment of spending a few extra minutes to bounce down the project from my archives, upload it to my website, and write a few short paragraphs online here.

Mind you, I've been very clear in my mind that I'm sharing this here for open discussion, not collaboration. If an idea arises from this discussion that I end up using then that's great, but I'm not going to make changes to the song to please other people (other than my sister). I think people here understand this, and I certainly think we're having a positive experience here (positive enough last time to do it again!). I enjoy sharing my processes and thoughts here.

I was actually thinking today, it's a little like reality TV. Everyone reading this thread is getting a "behind-the-scenes" glimpse into how I "really" compose a song, rather than just hearing the final product. It was pretty smooth last time, but this one's ugly.

Good luck on getting the instrumentation to gel with the (awesome as usual!) vocals.

Thanks!

And you have the raw vocals, so there's always the opportunity to revisit this piece and do a remix if all the ideas don't fit cohesively into one mix. (Speaking of which, have you considered doing a call for remixes here on KVR? The other guys who've done it seem to have had some success--just a thought.)

I don't think I'll revisit this song after it's finished. Why re-work an old song when I could start a new one? It's not like my sister or I are dry for ideas. I take the view that once a piece of music is finished, it's history. I learn what I can from the experience and apply it to future work. I try to keep looking forward, and moving forward.

I've thought about opening it up for others to remix though. It could be fun. Actually, it'd be fun if the remixers keep a similar diary - at the end of each day post an audio snapshot and write a little bit about where they're up to! I could allow people to ftp their files directly to my web space to keep them all together, and we could have one big messy remix thread! Who's interested?

-Kim.

[sloworm]

me too, i hate to revisit, it is like moving on from a bad relationship or friendship, why revisit? but sometimes it is fun to relive the positive moments in recording and the feelings you felt while being hyped up on your shiny new piece.

By reading your diaries it has helped me in thinking of new ways to arrange, so if it is of any beauty to you, thank you!!!

[bduffy]

I'm up for a remix! Especially with those enchanting vocals!

[Kim Lajoie]

It turns out I probably listen to too much hip hop.

-Kim.

[sloworm]

It turns out I probably listen to too much hip hop.

-Kim.

r.a.n.d.o.m....why is that?

[Kim Lajoie]

Day 5

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More details. Trying desperately to save this dying beast. Rain. Reversed pianos. "Back of hall" reflections in the chorus. Mellotron choir. And Replicant back to work in the bridge.

This was getting very close to the point at which I couldn't do much more to the music.

You might notice that I've removed the repeated vocal lines at 0:14, 0:34, and 3:16. That was the result of a frank discussion with Maxine about the song. Without reliving the experience, the short version is that she wasn't impressed. She made three points:

1) The repeated vocal lines make it too pretentious. I can't say I quite understand this one. Regardless, those lines simply had to go. In retrospect, I think it was the right decision. I'd used those extra lines for two reasons: Firstly, I like the performances (never a good enough reason on its own), and secondly (and more importantly) it was an attempt to get the most mileage out of the small amount of vocal material I had. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I learned that lesson. If I wanted to use more vocal material, we should have written more vocal material (which we should have done). In contrast to Undone, where we had too much vocal material (which blew out the length of the song), this time we erred on side of not having enough. Snip, snip.

2) It's too hip hop. Not exactly, but close enough. I have an aversion to four-on-the-floor rhythms (I find them incredibly boring), so I have a tendency to use syncopated rhythms everywhere. This has two implications. Firstly, it makes it a little more difficult to balance stability against instability. If the "stable" rhythms are already syncopated, it doesn't leave much room to move in the direction of instability (at least in the pop song format). Now, I'm not going to go back and turn this into "What You Waiting For?", but I will rethink my stability reference point, and think about making it more stable. Dynamic range doesn't just apply to volume or level, it applies to all composition techniques. The second implication is that the rhythm (and subsequently, the vibe) of the song didn't match with what Maxine was singing. She listens to a lot more indie rock and girl punk, and so her "internal rhythms" are much straighter than mine (it turns out I listen to too much hip hop). This probably also contributed to the dissonance.

3) There's too much chorus. Half the song is chorus. Partly this is simply the pop song format, but it's exasperated by the lack of vocal material. Often pop songs will actually have a "chorus-a, chorus-b" arrangement, where chorus-a might act as a lead-in or build-up, or chorus-b is an elaboration or continuation of the (extra-musical) thematic material. Of course, it's too late at this stage to attempt such an arrangement, but we'll be having a go at it next time.

In the meanwhile though, things are looking up...

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

Day 6

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Ok, we're getting there. This is the corner. I'm starting to feel like this song has legs.

The first thing I did was slightly de-hiphop-ify it. It's not a complete change to rhythmic language, but I've massaged some of the sections (first verse and 2nd and third choruses, mainly) to emphasise the "rhythmic tonic". I've done this by modifying the kick rhythm, and adding some straight toms in the mid-background. I'm much happier with it now. You can hear that the dynamic range between stable rhythm and unstable (or muted) rhythm is noticeably greater. More range, more exciting. I'm still not 100% happy on the tone of the toms themselves - they're a bit too "pasty". Normally I'd go for a tighter and deeper sound, but it'd be lost in this mix (without making it a feature, which would then turn the whole mix over). I also added a straight-8ths synth arpeggio in the background of the chorus. I really like the way this adds some solidity to the overall texture. It's a bit 80s... we'll see if I hate it tomorrow.

I've also added yet more details - particularly at 0:32 and 2:16. These are actually ambient synth FX "loops" from Sonic Reality's RAW. I don't usually use loops, preferring to design my own rhythms and sounds. However, these are more like ambient textures (that just happen to be rex-sliced and loopable). They were actually just what I needed to emphasise and enhance what was already there. They just sit in the background, adding "more". I also added another Replicant track in the bridge (bringing it to three in total). This one uses Replican'ts LP filter motion... listening back now I think it's a bit strong. I'll probably turn that down tomorrow. I'm actually really liking the way the chorus explodes back at 2:16. I'm thinking I might (in the mix) gradually collapse the stereo field to mono throughout the bridge, then suddenly (and temporarily, of course!) turn on the super-wide when the chorus explodes back.

The other thing I've done is cut one of the chorus repetitions at the end. It was just getting too much. As always, it sounded too short at first after I cut it, but now it feels right. We're still clocking in at around 3:30, so it's not a problem.

You might also notice right at the end I've gradually applied a bandpass filter to the piano as the other instruments drop out. Not a big deal, but I just thought it was far too heavy without it. It took a bit of fiddling to get the frequency and width just right, but I think the end is much smoother now.

We could be almost finished!

-Kim.

[stash98]

I hear this song completely different. Id have a much faster beat behind it for starters. the chorus music does not lift enough like her vocal does either..not enough impact..I do like the breakdown though.

[Kim Lajoie]

Day 7

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Ok, that's it. Time to mix this sucker. I've used the same process that I've written about elsewhere. No need to repeat myself again.

Of particular note is the stereo width automation over the bridge. It gradually collapses to mono, then at 2:16 the side channel is boosted by about 8db. It's probably too effective. Listening back, I think the bridge is actually the wrong way around - it currently gets smaller and smaller over time. I suppose it's a little like a spring building up tension, does anyone hear it? I'm not really sure that it works. Next time I'll try the bridge the other way around - starting small and building up to the climax.

Not much more to say here. I'm glad the end is in sight.

-Kim.

[seamoss]

The song seems a bit unfocused. It has sporadic changes and dynamics that seem unnecessary and IMO....make the song hard to listen to. Kingston mentioned being careful about the production "trickery" and I completely agree. This song reeks of it.

I love the first break with the mellotron but I think the arrangement is weird and the chorus comes way too early. I also think the chorus is being played too many times. It might not be so bad if you had some more verses. Can't your sister sing/write some more?

The snare sound is notorious. I am all for having a snare sound that's different but it should work and this one just annoys and aggravates me. Maybe you can fix this in the mixing.

I do like the guitar chords in the track but I think they are too low in the mix and I also think they sound a little thin. This could be because you are using an amp sim. Got a real amp laying around anywhere? Guitar part reminds me of something off Coldplays first record although theirs sounding quite a bit warmer. Think Portishead or something - great guitar tones there.


That being said, I actually like this track much better than the last. Sure, I can hear a Massive Attack vibe but it's better that than hearing a cheesy late 90's alternative rock vibe IMO.

I know it's all subjective.

sorry for the mess. I am still working on my first cup of java this morning ......ZZZ.zz.zzZZzz...

[stash98]

Parallel compress those guitars at least. They are definitely small and need work. I just don't think the music matches up well with this singer.

[sloworm]

remix-remix

*seems the song is very ummm....the ideas are fantastic, the tinkle sound is great, mixed very cool, the beat is scrappable and needs an overhaul, the guitars are cool, the bass is what makes it boring for me. the singing is great, but honestly i could see an idm soundscape behind her, nasty bass, naughty beats...simple and effective, with a flare....keep at it, you guys will gel a sound...also, is the singer satisfied with the song?

[stash98]

yeah..he should post the vocal files and tempo for remixes.