II relative of secondary dominants on minor scales

[JumpingJackFlash]

So the complete back cycle would be Cmaj7 - F#min7b5 - Bmin7 - Emin7 - Amin7 - D7 - G7

mmm...so thats using the circle of fifths to end up in a secondary dominant right? Then i see the chords formed on each of this notes (F# - B - E - A...) correspond to the major key harmonization of the secondary dominant (chords derived from the G major scale). Sorry i know it can be expressed better, i just dont know how, i still mix concepts

Then when using the circle of fifths not in a modulation or secondary dominant, just using it while i am at CMaj...what chord is played on F#? Because in the C major scale there's no F#...

Does this question have sense?


Also why did you say the complete cycle backwards? you started at F#..why? why not beginning at F? If i look at the drawing of the circle i see the whole cycle backwards should start at F (note before C on the circle -at the left i mean).

You're probably going to get yourself even more confused here. You said you only wanted to decorate a cadence and not modulate, so I would say forget about the cycle of fifths for now. (However if you really want more info you could read my posts here for more information).

The progression you want is vi - V/V - V - I.
Or, with sevenths: vimin7 - V7/V - V7 - I.
(Or, in a minor key: VImaj7 - V7/V - V7 - i.

All chords are diatonic (belong to the key) except V7/V, the secondary dominant, which belongs to the dominant key (one more sharp, plus raised leading notes in minor keys).

So, in C major:
Amin7-D7-G7-C.

In A minor:
Fmaj7-B7-E7-Amin.

[Newbie Brad]

Hi,

I know the major scales form this chords_

IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7

So i know (correct me if i am wrong, please) i can use this to go to every one of the chords of this scales (using the IIm7 to go to the respectives dominants). Fine.

So now i am trying to master the harmonic minor scale and the chords derived from it are:

IIØhalf dim - V7 - Imin7

The II chord (second degree?) is different than the II form the major scale. Am i right if i say i have to use this IIhalf dim before any secondary dominant?

I suppose the question is extensive to any other scale, as every one of them should give different constructions for the II and V chords.

Sorry if its a stupid question, just trying to put things in place.

Thanks

You could use your harmonic minor scale information in a purely utilitarian way in a normal playing situation by playing over the IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7 from the major scale using the root of the IIm7 chord as root for the 4th scale mode of the harmonic minor scale; using the note a half-step higher than the root of the V7 as root for the 7th scale mode of the harmonic minor scale; and using the root of the Imaj7 as root for the 3rd scale mode of the harmonic minor scale. This approach ignores your secondary dominants question, but it is an easy swapping concept to get a few phrases playing the harmonic minor against the major key whose root is the root of the Imaj7 chord (root of the Imaj7 as root for the 3rd scale mode of the harmonic minor scale).

[DrBoomBoom]

I always have a hard time thinking of a minor key as starting with a i or Im.

For example, if I have the chords Am C D F, like in the old song "House of the Rising Sun,"

They'd be Im IIIbm IV VIb. I think it's much easier to think of the minor key as being built off the VIm. then those chords are VIm I II IV, and I don't have to think of those flats that only exist in the world of numbers, but not in the world of letters. It helps me relate the minor, even the harmonic and melodic minors, to the diatonic. That way the half step happens from three to four and seven to one, no matter what mode or scale I'm using.

So II7 V7 I would relate to a minor key as VIIhalfdim7 (or VIIm7b5) III7 VIm.

But that just works for me, it might not for anyone else.