Ergonomics: controls + info + empty space vs empty space.

[fandango]

In addition, space is kinda irrelevant in Tracktion's case. It's a vector-based interface. You can zoom in and zoom out on various things with the mousewheel. You narrow what you're interested in at any one time, or zoom out for an overview. Therefore, the space issue is kinda made irrelevant by the workflow methodology?

[bullshark]

I think Mutant and LM need to step outside in the empty parking lot and fight it off...or get a room...one or the other...

[Lunch Money]

Right.

Me and LM are clearly 2 completely different persons.

I would like to have as low amount of empty space as possible (heck I even would not object to no empty space at all - maybe I'm an opposite of claustrophobic ?)

So now you're back to saying you don't appreciate the ergonomic benefits of empty space? Which IS it?

- and I can't even imagine why someone would want to purposefully hide buttons and other controls just to have a "less cluttered screen".

LM ?

The conversation that prompted that screenshot involved Bevoss saying that he could reclaim left-to-right space completely, by disabling Reaper elements. My response was, "Tracktion can do that, too." NOT, "Yeah, diz is de best... I recommend hiding all your stuff!" Like I said, you took the thing out of context.

Judging by his responses - he likes big amounts of empty space so much that he actually posted that yucky screenshot thinking that it was a pro-Traction eyecandy.

Tastes , tastes, tastes !

Well, you don't have to make assumptions and guesswork, because it was right in the thread. I posted that screenshot as a direct repsonse to another person, and with a specific purpose. The end result was that Bevoss said, "Heh, I guess they're about equal in that regard after all." So no, it wasn't "pro-Tracktion eyecandy," and indeed I'd never have such a minimal setup. It's useless to hide everything. But wait, I already mentioned THAT in the same thread, too... that I'd never hide it all. In fact, I think I said it to YOU, no? Oh yes, it was:

(in response to Mutant) I agree-- I rarely hide the stuff I access all the time (the FX area, the properties panel); the screenshot was just to illustrate that you could.

btw. I'm out ! There is no point in discussing things with someone who obviously transmits at a completely different wavelength.

I didn't realize that the English language was a transmission on a different wavelength. That's not meant to be a dig, if you're not a native English speaker... I definitely understand language barriers. But it's hardly a miscommunication due to having different wavelengths... it's just about pure communication. I like how people make their "exit" with an underhanded set of ad-hominems, though. Very classy.

Greg

[Lunch Money]

I think Mutant and LM need to step outside in the empty parking lot and fight it off...or get a room...one or the other...

If I have to pick, I'll take the empty parking lot.

[ModuLR]

what sucks that that Mutant is failing to state that on any given in track in Tracktion, you can see inputs, plugins, vol/pan, and metering (and even EQ if you are using the native T EQ) all on 1 track. So really, I think it's VERY misleading what you are attempting here. Not taking anything away from Reaper of course, because I think it's superb in it's own respects... and I wish Tracktion had horizontal meters.

[Mutant]

what sucks that that Mutant is failing to state that on any given in track in Tracktion, you can see inputs, plugins, vol/pan, and metering (and even EQ if you are using the native T EQ) all on 1 track. So really, I think it's VERY misleading what you are attempting here. Not taking anything away from Reaper of course, because I think it's superb in it's own respects... and I wish Tracktion had horizontal meters.

What sucks is that ModuLR thinks that this thread is about Reaper vs Tracktion and not about showing buttons and info vs showing just empty space.

Tracktion CAN have controls in that space... assigning and arming input, along with monitoring input levels.

Of course it can.

[ModuLR]

Ahhh, ok so I missed the point. I'll just add my two cents then... I like both ways. Sometimes I appreciate having info available to me, but when the brunt of the material is in and I'd like to start editing... I hide all the panels so all I have in front of me is strictly audio. At which point I have very limited info beyond my ears and the edits. But then again, I'm slowly getting back into tracking so that interface is a totally different game altogether (lots of info at once).

[headquest]

I think that those screenshots simply reveal an ignorance towards Tracktion - in which much of the visual feedback is to the right of the track, not the left. So it's a "troll poll" constructed to produce a biased result. As the OP also mentions an individual that he disagrees with, it is also an unworthy attempt at smearing somebody's opinion.

I've grown tired of this sort of stuff tbh. And it still seems to be the users of one particular sequencer product who have this particular need to attack everyone else's opinions/choices.

Sad.

[Mutant]

I think that those screenshots simply reveal an ignorance towards Tracktion - in which much of the visual feedback is to the right of the track, not the left. So it's a "troll poll" constructed to produce a biased result. As the OP also mentions an individual that he disagrees with, it is also an unworthy attempt at smearing somebody's opinion.

I've grown tired of this sort of stuff tbh. And it still seems to be the users of one particular sequencer product who have this particular need to attack everyone else's opinions/choices.

Sad.

Learn to read with understanding.
This is not an anti Tracktion poll - I know that Traction can show useful things there.
This is an anti-wasted-empty-screen-space poll.

I quoted LM because IMHO it was necessary, because I gave my own opinion too.

[headquest]

No - it's an "empty space" vs. "controls and info" poll, which suggests that Tracktion doesn't give you controls or info, which is simply misleading. I'm sure you know full well that Tracktion simply presents that information elsewhere on the GUI.

If you paint a misleading picture of Tracktion, clearly for the purpose of arguing that the way Reaper presents track information is superior, then be prepared for people to assume you are being anti-Tracktion .

[Mutant]

No - it's an "empty space" vs. "controls and info" poll, which suggests that Tracktion doesn't give you controls or info, which is simply misleading. I'm sure you know full well that Tracktion simply presents that information elsewhere on the GUI.

If you paint a misleading picture of Tracktion, clearly for the purpose of arguing that the way Reaper presents track information is superior, then be prepared for people to assume you are being anti-Tracktion .

I could not give Tracktion screenshot with non empty space because I don't have it installed on my computer.

I swear I did not have anything against Tracktion in mind when creating this poll.
If I'm lying - may I develop a brain tumor and never bench press 500lbs !

[headquest]

Fair enough

... and I guess that ModuLR's screenshot now acts as a balance that corrects yours anyway.

In terms of information/controls/empty space/etc... I'm not too bothered whether there is empty space etc, but I so hate unnecessary clutter and/or duplication. This was imho one problem when I tried Sonar (the track inspector duplicated the info on the track inputs right next to it, and the mixer if that was in view... quite unnecessary (although I realise you can get rid of it and customise to your hearts content).

Reaper and Tracktion are both great programmes ... but I find both their GUIs a bit cluttered, and for different reasons:
* In the case of Reaper I think it is the fonts used, the mixer paradigm, the general Sonar/Acid type windows look... just not for me.
* With T2 I though the interface was genius, but T3 is less intuitive and more cluttered imo. WIth T3 I think the problem is that different screen elements don't gel (e.g. very small rectangle buttons vs. very large jelly bean buttons... why?) and the new inputs seem clumsy as they currently are.

So to summarise, what I like in a GUI (maybe you can add this option to the poll? ) would be for the screen estate to be used :
coherently (everything in correct/standardised proportion),
economically (no clutter or duplication) and
wisely (intuitive and easy to find what you are looking for).

FWIW, I personally think that the Ableton GUI is the closest to these goals at present. But whether or not any programme is intuitive is at least partly subjective.

[Mutant]

I'm not too bothered whether there is empty space etc, but I so hate unnecessary clutter and/or duplication.

I am very bothered by wasted space.
Maybe it is because I have an ancient 15inch CRT that flickers too much at 1024*768 so I prefer to work at 800*600.
When you have so little screen space you can't afford any unnecessary blank fields.

Like I said earlier I wouldn't even object if there was no empty spaces at all - just controls bunched closely together - I have a fairly good eyesight, so "clutter" doesn't bother me so much.