xoxos

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:56 pm

sinkmusic wrote:I don't like reading manuals, so i try first.

i knew you were out there somewhere

that's it i'm sending the boys around

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:00 pm

Never really need a manual to get the idea of what does what. Doesn't mean I actually understand what's going on.

sinkmusic · Post by **sinkmusic** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:45 pm

xoxos wrote:
sinkmusic wrote:I don't like reading manuals, so i try first.
i knew you were out there somewhere

that's it i'm sending the boys around

eh eh
If they're Midi, i'm waiting for them

carlbe · Post by **carlbe** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:21 am

Since I voted... I'll throw my 2 cents in.

I browse manuals first in order to see if there are potentials in the software that I may not find by just playing with it. Then I try normal activities and then I return to the manual if I get stumped on certain aspects.

I happen to teach music tech, part time, for the last year and I was initally floored at how many of the students would gloss over features that they didn't understand and still not read the manual. My two examples are really simple to look up too.. the phase offset in Subtractor and the pre-fader Aux #4 in the mixer. Most students just assumed the pre-fader button in Reason just didn't work...

I also worked 16 years in the IT software development world and there too I was amazed at the poor documentation of tool-sets. Users suffered enormous losses of time, and the software gained huge PR problems. The devs having serious familarity with the product from designing it didn't understand why they should have to recapitulate their entire time that they were learning.
And BTW (getting snotty now) if you are interested in software interface design and do a decent amount of homework you know that the idea of intuitive gui's pass a certian functional complexity is just BS. Rarely do a significant amount of people "intuit" the same way unless the metaphor has all ready been around for quite some time (cue the SNL skit where George Wendt can't and never will be able to program a VCR).

You can't just go "play" in a C# complier and hope that you will come out with something unless you have years and years of experience...

So as I learned you ask - who are you making these tools for and how braod an appeal do you think they will have... then write your docs according to your vision of who the users are.

I angst less about vocab and more about the phrasology.

carlbe
(wishing rurik visitations by the manual writing unicorn muse)

qqq · Post by **qqq** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:30 am

I voted a)

Everything's YouTube tutorials these days

Manual = last resort

So yep, GUI is king.... Dumb it down.... Muso's are dumb

Actually, they aren't, but they do seem to give up pretty quickly.... I guess that's why most of 'em are not good businessmen

jonnyG · Post by **jonnyG** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:44 am

I'll always try the plugin first (that's because of impatience rather than any great technical prowess btw). If I need to read the manual just to run the installer or understand the GUI I'll usually run away at this point. However if it's somethingcomplex that I specifically want to use (rather than just something I'm trying out of idle curiosity) then a manual is always a welcome addition.

dark_virus · Post by **dark_virus** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:54 am

"try first, read manual later."

But I agree that a simple "upwego" tutorial is important. You know, short paragraphs, some crucial pics... something easy to follow when playing with the soft.

Jazzyspoon · Post by **Jazzyspoon** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:40 am

Thanks to Justin3am's suggestion, I have them printed out as reading material for the bathroom. I will try the gear first, then go to the bathroom.

HiEnergy · Post by **HiEnergy** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:21 am

When I tried out Populus, I read the manual very early in the process as I just wasn't able to figure what this plug-in did.
For the other xoxos midi plug-ins I consulted the manual more lately during my explorations.
For example did I discover in the manual that circuit is intended to build rhythm/drum/percussion lines, I used it for creating chordal textures before delving into the guide pdf. Sometimes manuals direct the creative flow away from certain directions, but they're absolutely necessary in my opinion.

lotus2035 · Post by **lotus2035** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:40 am

I ask myself what I want to do first..If I cant do it alone then the manual comes out..
This goes for any kind of software..

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:36 pm

carlbe wrote: I happen to teach music tech

i think i just had that 'aargh! moment of realisation -

just cruising along imagining everyone will 'intuit' as you say.. i have some functions that are represented by two or three numeric values.. quite seriously there's no way people are going to understand what they do by ear or by gui, so thanks for the long post... apparently my 'target' is limited to the set of manual readers this time..

..so glad to see there are a few

a bit frustrating.. i used to pop vst out in a few days.. this is taking weeks due to new dev and 'professional graphics...'

as a teaser.. i'm hoping you'll find it worth the read.. think 'very structured melodic patterns' tho only hearing about half of the finished product atm so we'll see.

stanlea · Post by **stanlea** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:17 pm

Fact that people have to read your manuals, proof of innovative concepts, so don't stop

eduardo_b · Post by **eduardo_b** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:55 pm

For me, a manual is what I spend time with when I can't figure out how to do something with the software, which happens sooner or later. I find the biggest problem with manuals is the indexing. Creating a functional index is something of an art in itself. Done right, it makes even the best manual even better.

carlbe · Post by **carlbe** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:49 pm

xoxos said;

a bit frustrating.. i used to pop vst out in a few days.. this is taking weeks due to new dev and 'professional graphics...'

Well you might be coming to that point of development maturity where you need to consider making more "Unicorn Treats" to cover the expanded time now for pre- and post-production. I think it's worth it. I believe in compensating you both for your innovation AND for the drudgery of manual writing... also you can consider trying to talk people who like to blather (ahem) into writing things for you since often they believe it increases their use of the product.

As I just looked at the Poll score it's like 88% read the manual sooner or later and only 12% percent expect to burden you or themselves with instant gratification. People serious about utilizing the potential of a tool read the manual before they move along - the better and more engaging the manual, the more time they have to realize the potential.

Mr. Eduardo_b sezs:

I find the biggest problem with manuals is the indexing. Creating a functional index is something of an art in itself. Done right, it makes even the best manual even better.

Amen to that. NI manuals are still driving me crazy... Kore 2, Kontakt 3, Reaktor? Holy Cow.
OTOH I like Propellerhead's stuff - they not only document well, imo, they also spend a decent amount of time setting up context. It's no small feat to have a manual accomplish both a narrative context for the tool, and a well indexed reference of the functionality.

carlbe

ughnonumus · Post by **ughnonumus** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Who is this Manny guy...gee, you'd think he knew everything about every product!

xoxos

KVR Audio

poll: do you read the manual?

for new concept vst, do you: