Fairlight CMI Emulation - is it possible?

[Chris Roberson]

Paged panels shouldn't be a difficult thing at all in the realm plugin developement, beit in C+/+ or any of the developement environments (I know making pages in SE is a snap for me, takes longer to integrate the artwork for it than actually build the structure).

The sampling technique is another thing altogether, as well as the true-to-life circuit path. The closer you model the small things, the closer the whole thing is to it's real-life counterpart, but the time you invest in it seems to increase exponentially once you get into that much detail.

Also, I kind of disagree to a point with the notion of not making remakes 100% true to life. I think if you're really trying to make an emulation, you try to make it as much as possible like what it's intended to replace, otherwise it's really just a knockoff inspired by . . .

But anyways, cheers to the notion, real emulations are charming to play around with regardless, especially when a real one costs more than a house.

[MarsHottentot]

Also, I kind of disagree to a point with the notion of not making remakes 100% true to life. I think if you're really trying to make an emulation, you try to make it as much as possible like what it's intended to replace, otherwise it's really just a knockoff inspired by . . .

Well, when making an emulation, one must consider 'Will this get me sued?'. The closer it is to the master unit, the more likely you are to get a cease and desist order. Especially if it's a commercial product. I'm willing to settle for a spiritual descendant that retains the main quirks and character (not unlike 112b's MORGANA, the Ensoniq Mirage-esque plug), if not a true to the letter clone.

You wanna give it a whirl, Chris?

[zerocrossing]

Yeah, I totally agree. I'd be way more interested in an effect plug in that took a signal down to 8 bit and then dithered it in a cool sounding way to get that distressed sound you could get from old samplers.

I'm way more interested in getting at the nitty gritty of what made an old instrument great than I am at a direct emulation. For instance, Aurturia's MiniMoog V: BORING. GForce: MiniMonstah: Awesome. Don't even get me started on UI design. Why companies like IK Multimedia feel the need to show you an almost full size picture of an amp head (hyperpoly alert!) when you're using software is beyond me. While I *love* their emulation, it falls flat because they stop there and fail to give you things that are not constraints in the software world. (NI seems more adept at such features, yet their amp emulation blows, IMO)

So while theads like this interest me, I guess if there was really a desire by anyone it would already exist. Fun to think about though.

Mark

For me, there's a place for some old school lo-fi samplers, even though it can still be more or less done with current gear if you want to. But I'm not convinced that a Fairlight emulation has enough of a market, beyond the curious people who would most likely try it, and then be thankful those days really *are* gone... This is a topic that does come up regularly, but I really think it's curiosity driven, more than anything else.

And my "laptops are amazing" throwaway comment that you picked up on is genuine and still stands. I am still amazed, and remember the days of lugging mountains of gear around, rigging it up, pulling it down etc. I just wish I had what I have now back then...

[lordvader48]

I think that the sound of the Fairlight is absolutely unique, and one of the best things to come out of electronic music ever.

I would jump at the chance to have a Fairlight simulation to work with, and would pay basically any amount of money to get it if it were good.

Obviously, it could be done. Look at what the 112db people have been able to do with Morgana. That thing is incredible, it really captures the soul of the Mirage (I have some Mirages and Morgana). The timbres that these 8-bit samplers get is really weird and they can be very unique and musically useful. I really hope that someday a Fairlight simulation, complete with all the "Pages", comes into existence.

My wallet is standing by...

[Vectorman]

I'm sure some are already aware of it (and it's possible I might even have mentioned it around here before - I have a terrible memory in regard to my posting history), but Darren Hayes tapped into a bit of "Fairlight nostalgia" on his This Delicate Thing We've Made album, released last year. Apparently it was something he had lusted after as a lad when his heroes like Kate Bush were using them, and now that he can afford such indulgences, courtesy of his success with Savage Garden, he bought an old IIx and used it on his last album. You can hear the bowed strings out front in the mix on "Casey," for example...



He had a video blog or two in which he was demoing the Fairlight, and you could tell he was kind of like an overgrown kid who'd finally gotten that cool Christmas present he'd really wanted twenty years after the fact.

[MarsHottentot]

Jeans Team get all Kraftwerk-ian with 'Oh, Bauer'. The Synclavier features among other synth drugs and makes a man jealous.

[LBN]

Until there is someday an Emulation I am right now waiting for a CD with original Samples of the IIx library that I ordered here:
http://www.pro-rec.com/samplecds.html

I have this sample CD and with it you're about 90% of the way there. Of course I found that everything I ended up making with it sounded like Art of Noise rejects but it's fun. This CD has the Fairlight sound. If one simply wants an emulation of the Page R sequencer then I'm sure that could be knocked out in Synthedit or Synthmaker in a few minutes. Anything else UI-wise is archaic compared to working within the context of modern samplers.

[MarsHottentot]

Of course I found that everything I ended up making with it sounded like Art of Noise rejects but it's fun.

Really? That hasn't happened to me. In fact, the stuff I've done with the Fairlight samples I have don't really sound like anything particularly 80's beyond the character. Don't get me wrong - it's sounds like a Fairlight - but the tracks themselves aren't 80's retro in the least.

[vieris]

I used to maintain an old fairlight about 8 years ago. It's not that they sound batter it's only that they sound different. People grew to like the noisy A/d d/A's. And who knows what kind of truncating distortions. Get yourself any modern sampler & some saturation plugins. You will be better off by far.

[BertKoor]

Sometimes process, limitation and character can be more creative than power and limitless possibilities. I find that I can become overwhelmed by the sheer vastness of what modern digital recording has put into my hands. I also find that my comfort level with such can lead to some lazy decisions making some of my tracks follow a certain path. Using limited equipment forces me to approach things in a different manner that, though frustrating at times, often teaches me something that I can use later.

I think that with a Fairlight at your disposal you'd be overwhelmed too. I wouldn't call it "limited equipment".

[MarsHottentot]

Sometimes process, limitation and character can be more creative than power and limitless possibilities. I find that I can become overwhelmed by the sheer vastness of what modern digital recording has put into my hands. I also find that my comfort level with such can lead to some lazy decisions making some of my tracks follow a certain path. Using limited equipment forces me to approach things in a different manner that, though frustrating at times, often teaches me something that I can use later.

I think that with a Fairlight at your disposal you'd be overwhelmed too. I wouldn't call it "limited equipment".

It is most definitely limited and has a very strict process with which it must be used. In this instance 'limited' most obviously doesn't mean 'simple' and I never implied that. When one is approaching a new instrument - becoming overwhelmed is natural - but an excitement is there from learning, a desire. This is totally different from stepping up to a machine of your own devices that carries 80 some odd synths, drum machines, sequencers, samplers, 30-50 different reverb units, delay units, amp sims and all of those weird things in between. Sometimes you don't know where to begin. Sometimes you hit autopilot and the results are tame.

I used to maintain an old fairlight about 8 years ago. It's not that they sound batter it's only that they sound different. People grew to like the noisy A/d d/A's. And who knows what kind of truncating distortions. Get yourself any modern sampler & some saturation plugins. You will be better off by far.

No one here has claimed that a Fairlight sounds 'better' (which I'm guessing you meant? 'Badder' - worse?). In any case, you and many people who have been reading this are completely missing the point. But then, I'm guessing you've done what most of us do when we come upon a thread longer than a page - we skim, but don't really read the whole thing - meaning we miss the part where I say quite clearly in the first sentence of the opening post:

I know many of you are going to ask 'Why?', well, if you have to ask- just back out slowly.

I really didn't want to debate 'Why', because this one of those types of things where you either get it - or you don't.

(this part is not directly aimed at you, vieris, but to KVR in general)

For instance, when I see a thread that says something about 'Awesome New Synth for Acid Leads', I don't come in and say "Why do you people need another synth for acid leads when there are at least 300 others to choose from?" or the million 808 clones or whatever that all connects to the never-ending thud of Techno and it's offspring.

Because, like Techno and it's millions of offshoots
I DON'T GET IT.
If I have to ask - I don't get it. Why go in and ruin everyone's good time?

Plus, if you read the posts, and someone has already said what you're about to (and it doesn't really pertain to the subject)- DON'T. Say something new.

(now back to you, vieris)

So, by 'maintain', do you mean you owned one, or that you were a technician? Have you ever used one in an artistic application, or just in a functional 'let's make sure it's running up to speed' manner? At the time (and eight years wasn't that long ago, the Fairlight was already a relic), what was your impression of it? Which model was it? Did it belong to a 'name'?

Let's say I stop running at windmills (I never will, there's always a new one - SOMEWHERE) and try to chain together a series of plugs to approach, if not the process (which is what I actually want and IS THE POINT, but I digress), then the character of sound - what would you suggest this chain consist of? Please think it over and give me something direct, please. 'Some saturation plugs' is rather vague, no offense.

[BertKoor]

I can clearly see where you're coming from and what your point is, MarsHottentot.

To draw an analogy: I play guitar, and gearlust is always there lurking around the corner. So at one time I had this programmable multi-effects pedalboard with endless possibilities. What to do with it? In practice I only used a handful of presets and never got round to dialling in something new.
So I put it in a drawer and got back to a very basic setup, consisting of a tuner, a Boss flanger, an overdrive pedal and a volume pedal (to mute it all) with an Orange amp. Talk about limitations...

We've had discussions about these type of things before. And for creativity it's best to concentrate on some plugins you know pretty well and stick to them. That's maybe also a reason why Reason (no pun intended) might be a good choice. No more fiddling about with 50 different EQs and compressors. Just use the one provided. It worked in the old hardware days, because it was simply too expensive to buy everything available! Now with all the free stuff it's easy to drown.

So what was it again with the Fairlight? Is it an all-in-one instrument to enable you to make anything? No, you'd still need plenty of other stuff as well in addition. It would be quite interesting nevertheless. Some of it's concepts can be found in current plugins. There might be some synths with freehand drawable waveforms for example

[beej]

Seeing as you are the spearhead on this thread Mars - what is it, to you, from the Fairlight, other than working with an actual real unit, that you think would give you that creative inspiration?

It can't be the sound, or the library of sounds, because you already have that. It can't be the features, as those features can be had elsewhere, and the limitations can be easily applied to your existing gear.

I mean, the original main sequencer in the Fairlight was a text language that you used to program in sequences effectively in code, not in realtime. Leaving aside the curiosity angle of discovering what features the various pages had to offer, and the actual sounds/library, it seems to me that the main things that a Softlight would give you are the crude additive synthesis, perhaps with mouse-drawing of the waveform and albeit much faster and more responsive than the originals, and the Page R realtime sequencer, which is pretty crusty.

So while I understand the potential appeal of a Softlight, I'm curious as to the things that *you* would want to use creatively, and which would benefit your process. I know you just want to play with the combined featureset and see what you could do, but that is still really the curiosity part of the equation.

What does it mean to you to have a virtual Fairlight?

[chicken muffin]

why do you want to go back in time? any modern sampler will be far more musical then a fairlight. isn't the thole point of using studio gear using whats best and most effective? dont even remind of the spaghetti days. im glad i don't have to deal with all those wires and heavy equipment

[lordvader48]

I used to maintain an old fairlight about 8 years ago. It's not that they sound batter it's only that they sound different. People grew to like the noisy A/d d/A's. And who knows what kind of truncating distortions. Get yourself any modern sampler & some saturation plugins. You will be better off by far.

Again, this is another uninformed opinion. The saturation and distortion imparted on the sound by the early samplers is very special and can't be reproduced with current effects plugins. Part of "the sound" of these early samplers comes from the usually crude pitch transposition techniques used, the remainder from the digital/analog signal path.

The only VST plugin that even comes close to reproducing the sound of early samplers so far is 112db Morgana. Somehow those guys have come up with a VSTi that sounds an awful lot like the Mirage, but lacks the 2-digit hex user interface. Other than that, there are no VST/AU products on the market today that even come close to reproducing the sound of early samplers. Normal sample rate redux/bit redux plugins do not even come close.