KVR Mix Workshop - Week 9: Mastering

[eduardo_b]

I had more trouble with the mastering of my mix than I did with any other stage of this process. Now I know I'll definitely hire a professional mastering engineer to master my mixes if I need to.
I think I'd just gotten too familiar with my mix and couldn't hear it anymore. I also found out that my monitors have limitations I need to address, although using headphones to hear the lowest frequencies helped.

I think that's perhaps the most useful lesson to be learned from this. I know I keep saying it over and over -- let someone else do the mastering. Different skill set and different ears. It's like having an editor tweak your manuscript to bring out the best in it.

[Cordelia]

I think that's perhaps the most useful lesson to be learned from this. I know I keep saying it over and over -- let someone else do the mastering. Different skill set and different ears. It's like having an editor tweak your manuscript to bring out the best in it.

Definitely a useful lesson. I've never tried to master anything before. I'm still not 100% happy with my result. I'd let too many low mid frequencies build up in the mix. When it came time to master I needed to get rid of some of the low mids without making the kick/bass guitar weak. I don't think I succeeded.
I found out my old Tannoys just couldn't reproduce the frequencies I really needed to focus on. Per Kim's suggestion, I listened through headphones instead. That helped, but I still felt a bit like I was shooting in the dark.
Since the price of new monitors is too high for me for the foreseeable future (and although my room is acoustically treated, it's small), I think I'll ask Santa for some new quality headphones this year.

[Kim Lajoie]

By the way Kim, have you posted your comments on these various mastered versions? They are fairly similar overall, and all are equally loud. It would be interesting to see what your analysis is.

I provided private feedback on the initial drafts. These final versions are so similar that I don't think individual comments would be useful. Even the first drafts were good enough that the differences were bordering on personal taste. I think that speaks volumes about the participants' listening and engineering skills.

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

(note that Cordelia used his own mix, whereas everyone else used my mixdown)

not that it matters, but i always thought cordelia was of the female persuasion.

Me too, but then again I thought Kim may have been that way too. As for me I was suspected to be a boy with a fetish for techno... for the record i'm neither.

Ha. I didn't notice the "his" in Kim's post.
Yes, I'm of the female persuasion.

Haha, sorry about that. I've edited the original post.

So, what became of Yonyz' and ngarjuna's final masters?

They chose not to participate.

Did I screw up? Was I supposed to master your final mix, Kim, instead of my own?

No, no, I provided my original unmastered mix for those who hadn't been through the rest of the workshop (and thus didn't have their own mix to master).

I had more trouble with the mastering of my mix than I did with any other stage of this process. Now I know I'll definitely hire a professional mastering engineer to master my mixes if I need to.
I think I'd just gotten too familiar with my mix and couldn't hear it anymore. I also found out that my monitors have limitations I need to address, although using headphones to hear the lowest frequencies helped.

True. It's extremely difficult to master one's own work - for the exact reasons you outlined. This is why I've developed my mastering process - to ensure as much as possible a consistent result. Switching to my "engineering ears" helps keep me focussed, and strictly keeping to exclusively corrective processing prevents me from getting lost in the "make it more awesome" black hole.

Even still, the process mostly prevents the problem of getting too close if I keep my head screwed on, and only partially addresses the problems with my monioring environment. I have no doubt that a professional mastering engineer could do a better job.

But the biggest reason to outsource mastering? It's just not fun. It's all process and critical listening with "engineering ears", not "artist ears". It's just not very creative.

-Kim.

[Cordelia]

But the biggest reason to outsource mastering? It's just not fun. It's all process and critical listening with "engineering ears", not "artist ears". It's just not very creative.

-Kim.

Yeah. I didn't want to say that, it seemed impolite, but mastering week wasn't much fun.
God bless mastering engineers.

I think I'll wait a couple of weeks, let my ears forget, and then have one more go at it. I like my unmastered mix better than my mastered version. I just know I can do better.

[eduardo_b]

But the biggest reason to outsource mastering? It's just not fun. It's all process and critical listening with "engineering ears", not "artist ears". It's just not very creative.

-Kim.

Very good point. Puts into words what I think is a very important distinction. And probably accounts for why there are mixing engineers and mastering engineers. Different goals, perspectives and maybe even different temperaments.

[shanecgriffo]

i quite enjoy the mastering process actually.. it is a different mind/ear-set to recording/performing/mixing. But what i think you can learn mastering rubs off on mixing skills and visa-versa.

[Cordelia]

But what i think you can learn mastering rubs off on mixing skills and visa-versa.

True. Had I been able to see into the future, understood the issues I would be facing while trying to master, I believe I would have made a few different mix decisions.
Oh well. Living and listening and learning.

[JCM]

Kim , thank you for the workshop. You did a great job.

[asnor]

Cordelia,

I just got back and listened to your final version. FWIW, You really did a good job with it. I think some of the deficiencies you mentioned aren't really deficient. All in all, it's on a completely different level than before. Great job.

BTW, I thought you were a guy, too. Sorry.

[Chopper]

I just thought I would congratulate everybody who participated, and would like to emphasize one or two points, as KVR is stepping into my domain, this time!

- Kim, as well as a few others, expressed the fact that it is very hard to master your own stuff, objectivity and all... well, although mastering is my main activity for years now, and I've got the studios that go with it, I NEVER EVER EVER mastered my own stuff (as a crappy musician with a few releases).
if you really need to master your stuff yourself, try to have at least an other track mixed between the mixing and mastering sessions. distance yourself from it.

- the equipment:
yes, you need great speakers, great room, great eqs, but most importantly, you need to know them. most of you who participated would do a better job on your setup with plugins than in my studio with PMCs and GML... familiarity is the key. you don't need the best tools, what you need is to know them inside out. As long as it accesses and corrects the frequencies you want, and it doesn't colours too much, then it's good.

something else I'd like to add, in the line of Kim's "DO NO HARM", if you want it fat, give us a fat mix. if you want it good, make the mix sound good. you can't polish a turd.

Thanks a lot to Kim for not going through the more technical side of it (it would take the whole KVR server), but instead going through what mastering is about, which is the most misunderstood side of the music industry, and He summed it brillantly ("summed", see what I did there? ok, I'll get my coat....)

[shogger]

Cool comments Chopper!

Shogger

[eduardo_b]

But what i think you can learn mastering rubs off on mixing skills and visa-versa.

True. Had I been able to see into the future, understood the issues I would be facing while trying to master, I believe I would have made a few different mix decisions.
Oh well. Living and listening and learning.

I do think there were issues with the mix that mastering couldn't overcome, and the increase in loudness actually made it worse. Personal opinion, of course. And I think attempting to master a less than ideal mix illustrates how much the qualities of the mix truly matter. None of the versions, which were indeed very similar, could overcome what I thought was the primary issue -- the vocal didn't seem to sit well in the mix and seemed both thin/harsh and bordering on distortion when limiting was applied in the last third of the song. But, again, only personal opinion and not meant to hurt anyone's feelings.

[shogger]

I do think there were issues with the mix that mastering couldn't overcome, and the increase in loudness actually made it worse. Personal opinion, of course. And I think attempting to master a less than ideal mix illustrates how much the qualities of the mix truly matter. None of the versions, which were indeed very similar, could overcome what I thought was the primary issue -- the vocal didn't seem to sit well in the mix and seemed both thin/harsh and bordering on distortion when limiting was applied in the last third of the song. But, again, only personal opinion and not meant to hurt anyone's feelings.

The question is always what's the goal you have to reach for. If some substantial things are concidered as non-ideal either the client says what he/she wants to be done with it or you have to guess that these issues should be changed.

My first draft has been quite strong in the 2k and 4k areas as the vocals and the snare are rather strong there in the mix. Kim's comment: "The upper mids are a little strident. Try focussing the energy further up top."
The general goal was "Do no harm!". So after Kim's comment on my first draft I knew that it should be avoided to keep these strongs mids. So I calmed down the mids at those frequencies and therefor turned down the voice and the snare.

Shogger

[LeVzi]

That was a really good read, turns out i've been doing it right all along

I agree about someone else doing the mastering though, a neutral set of ears comes in handy.

But there is the best mastering tool you'll ever need really, your ears

Look forward to the next workshop