Sonic Reality

geoffrey · Post by **geoffrey** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:24 pm

world instruments like kanjira, mrdingam, udu, tanpura, sitar, riq, etc...

ViktorW · Post by **ViktorW** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:40 pm

Even though I voted "AvantGarde&Experimental", which I'd be interested in, I also wouldn't mind good world/ethnic instruments at all.

AvantGarde/Experimental, what could that mean though? Dark Jazzy tones mixed with an industrial or "David Lynch"ian atmosphere, something that sounds like an obsessed chamber orchestra, warm and recorded in a room hung with velvet curtains, but the Cellist plays a giant saw, and the violinist plays his violin with too long fingernails...

...and a strange short man start talking backwards and dances to a saxophone - and agent Cooper goes into the black lodge and...no don't do it!!!!!

Sorry, lost it there for a second.

Well, for a change I wouldn't mind hearing sounds and instruments that are soundtrack-ish, but not the big Hollywood kind, more like the European-student-movie type, whacky but personal.

I find the ubiquitousness of the big orchestral sound a bit tiring, and what would I actually use it for. If I want to get some jobs in the soundtrack area, and make music for amateur student movies, a fake orchestra sound is almost as cheap as you can get (in my book), because I smell would-be professionalism, all hat and no cattle, if you will.
IMO! Don't mean to offend anyone

So, AvantGarde/Experimental maybe in the sense that it's soundtrack-ish, but still usable and perfectly suitable for a low-budget movie.

how about that?

dougsyo · Post by **dougsyo** » Sun May 10, 2009 11:33 pm

Tough call, to be honest.

I have ST2, SS2, Philharmonik, Samplemoog, all of the Sonic Capsules, the six major expansion tanks, and assorted other ST1/ST2 format products. The only thing I'm really lacking is Sampletron, and I already have other instruments that make it unnecessary.

ST doesn't compete with K2/K3 at this point, but as Squids noted, it doesn't have to. FWIW, I have K2, K3 and IP as well as several sample-based synths.

I'm going to have to think about it before I vote...

Doug

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 12:44 am

DocAtlas wrote:I voted for rare instruments, but there's always room for more ethnic/world stuff. One category that sometimes crosses over into both the rare & world groups is historical instruments. More of those would be nice; serpents, anyone.

I agree with one of the other posters that you can never have enough analog synth samples. I found that even though Sonik Synth 2 (I use its sounds in Sampletank), for example, may have sawtooth waves sampled from different synths, they all have subtle differences. I've gotten some great sounds by layering the 'same' waveform, but from different analog synths, in Sampletank.

I don't think Squids should rest until every vintage synth (or other keyboard) has been sampled. He doesn't really need to sleep...

Did you pick up Sample Arp Solo and Sample OB Xpander? Those were some really good ones and I agree with you both about analog synth samples. Each synth has its own flavor and SampleTank is a good engine for messing around with that.

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Mon May 11, 2009 12:50 am

It might make sense to be able to pick more than one option?

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 12:58 am

dougsyo wrote:Tough call, to be honest.

I have ST2, SS2, Philharmonik, Samplemoog, all of the Sonic Capsules, the six major expansion tanks, and assorted other ST1/ST2 format products. The only thing I'm really lacking is Sampletron, and I already have other instruments that make it unnecessary.

ST doesn't compete with K2/K3 at this point, but as Squids noted, it doesn't have to. FWIW, I have K2, K3 and IP as well as several sample-based synths.

I'm going to have to think about it before I vote...

Doug

I am glad you agree. I was thinking that after all this time SampleTank not having streaming and believe me I have been asking for it for YEARS... finally I stopped asking for it. We have Infinite Player for that. What I actually LIKE about SampleTank is the discipline of the sounds not exceeding a certain size. First, not every sound NEEDS to be massive but second there's something about fast loading (relatively) and the variety that makes it a great workhorse no matter what else you have. For me SampleTank is a staple to have in everyone's set up and it has its place. It's a true "rompler" and while it does the role of sample-based workstations that have been popular in hardware I find it to be much more accessible in terms of QUICK manipulation of the sounds... whereas very FEW people really edited their sounds in the hardware workstations. It's INVITED in SampleTank with that single-interface page design. It's all right there so you can't get lost. Pretty smart!

So, yeah, I've stopped wanting SampleTank to be like everything else a while ago and have embraced it for its unique qualities including its limitations... they're actually good (same thing with Reason and other RAM-based sample players). That doesn't mean I wouldn't LIKE to also have streaming in there or any of the other features... I'll take it! But, if development was going to be made (and of course it is) then I'd like to see more made of IK DSP, tools to enhance what it's already been known for... things that make the sounds you guys already bought even MORE powerful... to go its own route as opposed to being late at the "me too Giga" game. Ironically Giga itself is out of the game... or Garritan is trying to revive it but we'll see. We were considering buying it but ultimately passed. It was great but just too late to be a plug-in, dual platform etc. Shame really. But that's a whole other topic.

Anyway thanks for the feedback everyone. We know we have a lot of SampleTank users and are working on offering a more regular dose of fresh releases for you on www.esoundz.com

Btw you need to get SampleTron! That one is a must-have for anyone who appreciates quirky lo fi and vintage.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:00 am

ATS wrote:It might make sense to be able to pick more than one option?

KVR's poll feature doesn't allow that. But that's what the thread can be used for at least. The poll is for the category you want the MOST.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:14 am

zvenx wrote:What I want isn't there.
I want a sampletank 3 that will make me stop missing having a motif,triton and fantom as a vsti...
No offence, but quite frankly there is nothing that I have heard from sonic reality that will make it compete with Omnisphere or Alchemy or Any specialised Kontakt 2/3 library ever... I am willing to be proven wrong.... so instead of going for either the one of a kind or the truly top of the line. I would prefer superb bread and butter sounds in a new gui with a revamped browser.
my 2 cents.
rsp

Well, those are generally two different things. When someone says "bread and butter" that usually means pianos, basses, drum kits... aka "meat and potatoes" sounds to write with. Those are found in workstations like Motif, Triton, Fantom and I think that a lot of those types of sounds DO compete in SampleTank, Sonik Synth 2 and Miroslav Philharmonik. They are often many times better than those hardware units - especially the orchestral stuff. No question about it. Compared to specialized Kontakt Player products and specialized sample plug-ins is another story. But it all depends.

However, when it comes to synthetic sounds such as those found in OmniSphere and Alchemy then I understand where you are coming from. Actually Sonik Synth 2 DOES have the material to be able to compete with them but perhaps the full potential of it hasn't been unleashed. It was meant to be a massive collection of the sounds to manipulate with and while there ARE some nice combi patches... it wasn't nearly explored to the full capabilities of that engine for synth sounds. That will change in future sound development.

OmniSphere and Alchemy are both two of the latest sequels in development. We're in development of Sonik Synth 3 (no release date announced yet - but it's not a secret that we've been in development for it for a while as these things take years) and patch-wise it will be more along those lines. But, it will also be different and as it should! Because, if you like Alchemy then by all means just get Alchemy! I think it's amazing and Ben is brilliant. OmniSphere looks really cool too! Eric's always done great work that has that "wow" factor to it.

When we make our products we're not necessarily focusing on "how do we compete?". We focus more about what we think would be really great working within a certain format. At SR we do our own Kontakt Player products - Infinite Player series and Ocean Way Expandable. We do sounds for Reason, loops in Rex, Apple Loops and Acidized Wave, sounds for other samplers and we're the only third party company that has such a wide selection of sounds for SampleTank (it's one of the hardest formats to create sounds for). I think there are a LOT more kinds of sounds we can do for SampleTank though and your suggestion is good... and it is already being worked on. But, that said, in the right hands I really think Sonik Synth 2's material can make for some very inspiring stuff... and it has - it's been used on tons of records and with some of today's top electronic and pop artists. It's many people's secret weapon. So a lot depends on you when the materials to shape ARE there... if that's how a product is made.

The core of Sonik Synth was made before any of those first sequels (Atmosphere or Cameleon) existed. The concept I had for it was more to provide the UBER synth rom to work with, the range of colors I'd want to use to create textures quickly combined with the meat and potatoes workstation sounds (ironically, I had actually created a bunch of the workstation sounds for hardware keyboard, modules and expansion cards and many were larger versions of those sounds!). I had never thought of it as more of an "instant gratification" preset synth. I don't think it would have been a bad idea. Atmosphere was more like that (and had less capabilities to shape sounds, process them and it didn't have full multi-timbral capabilities or the meat and potatoes pianos, guitars etc. sounds). But it was well liked and popular! People do like instant gratification. But, for me personally if I had to choose between something that has all the tools for WIDE creativity vs. less flexibility but instant gratification patches I'd choose the first option... but that's me. Ideally though you offer BOTH and that is what we're working on doing more of these days.

ATS · Post by **ATS** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:20 am

Squids wrote:
zvenx wrote:What I want isn't there.
I want a sampletank 3 that will make me stop missing having a motif,triton and fantom as a vsti...
No offence, but quite frankly there is nothing that I have heard from sonic reality that will make it compete with Omnisphere or Alchemy or Any specialised Kontakt 2/3 library ever... I am willing to be proven wrong.... so instead of going for either the one of a kind or the truly top of the line. I would prefer superb bread and butter sounds in a new gui with a revamped browser.
my 2 cents.
rsp
Well, those are generally two different things. When someone says "bread and butter" that usually means pianos, basses, drum kits... aka "meat and potatoes" sounds to write with. Those are found in workstations like Motif, Triton, Fantom and I think that a lot of those types of sounds DO compete in SampleTank, Sonik Synth 2 and Miroslav Philharmonik. They are often many times better than those hardware units - especially the orchestral stuff. No question about it. Compared to specialized Kontakt Player products and specialized sample plug-ins is another story. But it all depends.

However, when it comes to synthetic sounds such as those found in OmniSphere and Alchemy then I understand where you are coming from. Actually Sonik Synth 2 DOES have the material to be able to compete with them but perhaps the full potential of it hasn't been unleashed. It was meant to be a massive collection of the sounds to manipulate with and while there ARE some nice combi patches... it wasn't nearly explored to the full capabilities of that engine for synth sounds. That will change in future sound development.

OmniSphere and Alchemy are both two of the latest sequels in development. We're in development of Sonik Synth 3 (no release date announced yet - but it's not a secret that we've been in development for it for a while as these things take years) and patch-wise it will be more along those lines. But, it will also be different and as it should! Because, if you like Alchemy then by all means just get Alchemy! I think it's amazing and Ben is brilliant. OmniSphere looks really cool too! Eric's always done great work that has that "wow" factor to it.

When we make our products we're not necessarily focusing on "how do we compete?". We focus more about what we think would be really great working within a certain format. At SR we do our own Kontakt Player products - Infinite Player series and Ocean Way Expandable. We do sounds for Reason, loops in Rex, Apple Loops and Acidized Wave, sounds for other samplers and we're the only third party company that has such a wide selection of sounds for SampleTank (it's one of the hardest formats to create sounds for). I think there are a LOT more kinds of sounds we can do for SampleTank though and your suggestion is good... and it is already being worked on. But, that said, in the right hands I really think Sonik Synth 2's material can make for some very inspiring stuff (and it has - it's been used on tons of records and with some of today's top electronic and pop artists).

I still say that piano you all made for infinite player is my favorite. And I got the NI pianos and the Kontakt Library ones as well.

Also I don't think everyone realizes that IK (who makes Sampletank) and Sonic Foundry are two different companies although the two do work together. Correct?

I haven't bought any third party Kontakt stuff yet but I am waiting for Sonic Reality to release some stuff for it like Strings/Orchestra.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:30 am

Any insight as to what insert efx we might see (maybe an enhanced bit reducer/resonator? More pattern based filters etc?)

Whenever the new Sampletank Engine is released it will give those sounds a new life. I really like using sampletank for those one-off sounds where you can sculpt a sound all within the engine. It is very powerful.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:32 am

You mean Sonic Reality of course, not Sonic Foundry.

That's even more different!

But, yes, of course they are two separate companies. We've been development partners on SampleTank products since we did Sonic Synth 1 in 2001. We collaborate a lot but Sonic Reality is a sound developer and IK is a software developer. They don't always use SR sounds and SR doesn't only do sounds in IK formats. I think where extra confusion is added is that IK sometimes has distributed Sonic Reality products and of course eSoundz (an SR-run e-commerce site) is a dealer for IK... we share the same office as IK's US distribution outlet and there's mutual interest crossing all over the place. Plus, we have this forum and it has been used for a surrogate SampleTank forum sometimes. But, it's all good. The reality is that they are two separate companies with their own development paths. AT SR we DO make sounds for multiple platforms and to us it doesn't matter which one you choose. We're here to make sounds for YOU, in whatever format that there is a demand for sounds in. That's our goal. To "Sample Everything".

This thread was made to reach out to our SampleTank users. We know SampleTank users are counting on SR for more third party sounds since not many developers even make native SampleTank sounds. So, what better way to do it than to just ask what you guys want?

vespers75 · Post by **vespers75** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:39 am

Squids wrote: We know SampleTank users are counting on SR for more third party sounds since not many developers even make native SampleTank sounds.

True, this. Other company's like Hardcore Harmonics and Tonehammer have mentioned they were going to make their sounds available in ST format, but never did. SR is the big name in ST sounds.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:43 am

Scotty wrote:Any insight as to what insert efx we might see (maybe an enhanced bit reducer/resonator? More pattern based filters etc?)

Whenever the new Sampletank Engine is released it will give those sounds a new life. I really like using sampletank for those one-off sounds where you can sculpt a sound all within the engine. It is very powerful.

Yes! SCULPT was the key word I was looking for in the post about synthetic sounds (or even just the meat and potatoes - particularly with the built-in effects). For me it is the fastest tool to sculpt with when I am writing and that's an important stage because you don't want something messing with your creative flow. To me it is ideal to have ALL of the SampleTank sounds you think you MIGHT use readily available to you. Then while you're writing you imagine a sound and grab bits and pieces from Sonik Synth 2, ST2.5 XL, Miroslav etc. and you SCULPT it how you hear it! You layer things, you apply effects to the whole later (thanks to that feature in the latest ST2.5 which wasn't always there... but makes a huge difference). Those that unlock the power of SampleTank THAT way are getting a whole other experience from it than those that expect other things from it that you can get from other plug-ins. That's why I suggest getting other plug-ins (even our own Infinite Player) when you want those things but get SampleTank TOO when you want stuff like what we're talking about. That sculpt factor.

So yeah, I can't say anything specific about future ST development except for the things I ask for which there's no guarantee of happening. Some things I've asked for happen and some things I've asked for for YEARS have never happened. So one never knows. Even when I do know though I can't really say anything of course. But, I am SURE it will always continue to enhance what you have and that's been a tradition of ST development since the beginning if you think about it. Look at ST2.5 compared to the original (the original looks like a TOY now!). So, for sure we can expect it to just get better and better.

We've had other SampleTank feature suggestion threads though and can revive one for feature requests. We should probably keep this one focused more on sound development though.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:48 am

vespers75 wrote:
Squids wrote: We know SampleTank users are counting on SR for more third party sounds since not many developers even make native SampleTank sounds.
True, this. Other company's like Hardcore Harmonics and Tonehammer have mentioned they were going to make their sounds available in ST format, but never did. SR is the big name in ST sounds.

For better or worse it's not exactly the most inviting format to develop sounds for. I say better because it has been good for SR to be the default near exclusive third party developer for it. That said, it has been a trial by fire and takes up twice the energy it does to create sounds in other formats so when we do it then it's a darn good thing we have an audience for it (otherwise we couldn't). You guys all support us being able to do it AND keep the costs down.

So, anyway, I can see why some of the other companies intend to do it but then back down. There's just not enough tools on the product itself to get under the hood. You have to use a bunch of proprietary tools and some of them we even had created ourselves in house... just to be able to make mapping and modulation changes reasonably well.

It is definitely more of a rompler than a sampler. A good piece to make patches with but making samples for it... tough. I mean, apart from converting your Akai libs and things like that but even that is hit and miss.

gckilla · Post by **gckilla** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:13 am

I'm going to back up Squids on all his points. Shameless, I know.

There's a lot going for sampletank and having all those libraries available for it have been great for me to create layers and layers of sound. Plus, there are really good effects included with sample tank that take the what ever sound you have in a new direction.

Over the past year, it's been even more affordable to get this stuff.

For me, the multi-timbrality is huge thing as it keeps my work-flow clean. One plugin, multiple outputs, etc... Keeps me focused on music (when my kid isn't demanding my attention).

I'm not slamming any other product, but I often think it's funny when people compare some new instrument with an older one. What's better? A sax, or a trumpet (actually a trombone is better).

Over my years of lurking and downloading demo's, I just think that people just get swept up in the hype surrounding a particular product, despite it just being different then what's already out there. Not better.

Sure, I would like a mod matrix in sample tank or some other ways to do things. Worse comes to worst I can just re-sample and put it in something that does have a mod matrix. There a bunch of options. Limitations can sometimes be empowering.

Anyways, enough sermonizing.

Sonic Reality

KVR Audio

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