Is that infringement?

[yellowfever]

I raised this topic a few weeks ago about drum samples. To answer the original question though, I say how could they ever prove it and sue?
Let's say, for the purposes of an example, you sampled a preset from any well known top selling synth, add some external delay, reverb, chorus, filter, whatever, resampled it and sold that as a sample; how could they possibly say 'Hey that's my synth, I'm gonna sue you buddy'?
How many times do we see topics saying please create this sound for me from a Virus or a Nord or a XYZ. Very very hard to prove imo. I may be wrong

[sonicpowa]

No, TR-808 and TR-909 are analog synthesizers.

...drum machines with analog and sampled sounds (hats, toms..) to be exact.

But answer for 'mEnZI1' original question is clear: yes it's illegal.

[Meffy]

To answer the original question though, I say how could they ever prove it and sue?

That's not an answer, and it does not address the original question. The original question was "Would this be copyright infringement?" and the answer is "Yes."

[yellowfever]

To answer the original question though, I say how could they ever prove it and sue?

That's not an answer, and it does not address the original question. The original question was "Would this be copyright infringement?" and the answer is "Yes."

...but if you quoted the rest of my post, instead of just this bit, it would make more sense, no?

Come on. Anyone could post a brass sample from say a FM7 and a JV1080 and treat both with external FX; could you tell which one is which?

I'm not in any way advocating illegal sampling, piracy whatever, just saying it is incredibly difficult to prove.

(Synths named above used purely as examples before NI or Roland sue me!!!!)

[Rock Hardbuns]

Likewise, you can sample an analogue SH101 or Jupiter 8 to hell and back and you can give 'em away, sell 'em, whatever (*), but you can't sample a Fantom because Roland owns copyright on the samples used in the sounds on that synth. Likewise Yammi Motif, Korg Triton, whatever, and their sample based instruments ... but you could sample a CS80 and/or MS20.

The notion that you can make your own sounds up on a sample based synth such as Fantom, Motif, Triton, whatever and sample those is a myth - if the sounds use other peoples' samples, whatever you do with the envs and filters and LFOs, etc., technically you can't sample them ... because the samples used as the basis of those sounds (whatever you do with them) are copyrighted.

This line of thinking, when it comes to hardware romplers, is paradoxical to me.

Either Roland (for example) retains the rights to the samples, which means they have rights to anything recorded from them. Including music made with them.

Or, Roland does not claim these rights, at which point you can do what you want with anything that comes out of the synth.

The popular opinion seems to be that making music is ok but single notes are not, which is understandable, but is tremendously complex from a legal perspective. It comes down to the purpose of the recording, and as far as I can tell the copyright convention says nothing about this.

So it would have to be declared in a sales contract/license, so that the buyer knows what he is paying for. And so far I have never signed such a contract for hardware (though for software, EULAs might count).

[Meffy]

...but if you quoted the rest of my post, instead of just this bit, it would make more sense, no?

*nodnod* No.

[Bonteburg]

The popular opinion seems to be that making music is ok but single notes are not, which is understandable, but is tremendously complex from a legal perspective.

You could always record some experimental music with it - 88 notes of a grand piano at four different velocities, meticulously arranged in a chromatic sequence of 20 minutes.

[yellowfever]

...but if you quoted the rest of my post, instead of just this bit, it would make more sense, no?

*nodnod* No.

well we agree to disagree then.

[rob_lee]

...but if you quoted the rest of my post, instead of just this bit, it would make more sense, no?

*nodnod* No.

well we agree to disagree then.

i hope you are'nt sampling my presets you robbing twat oh but then you can do if you want coz you sent me them rack ears for my orbit 3

mark you can find all my soundbanks on Rapidshare... i just found some tonight wish there was some way to code .fxp/.fxb files and inject them with a virus for pirates

Rob

[Meffy]

@yellowfever: Not a problem. You're not advocating violating copyright so it's all reet.

[yellowfever]

mark you can find all my soundbanks on Rapidshare... i just found some tonight

link?

Challenge - listen to my tracks and spot any of your presets

[rob_lee]

mark you can find all my soundbanks on Rapidshare... i just found some tonight

link?

Challenge - listen to my tracks and spot any of your presets

Lol i did'nt think they were that shit hehe''

Link?

Just google

Rob Lee Sylenth presets...Rapidshare Galore

Rob

[yellowfever]

Lol i did'nt think they were that shit hehe

huh? my tracks or your presets?

[ugo]

I would like to create a sample library, if I sampling a Virtual Instruments(maybe BFD?), then do some processing like EQ or Reverb,
Will infringement?

In addition to all that has been mentioned already...

Presets of synths that are not sample based also should not be sampled and resold. Once again, someone else worked to create that sound...it is theirs, not yours. Sampling it does not change that fact, and EQ and reverb do not add up to much, in terms of additional sound design.

If you take a sample from something else and mutate it beyond recognition, then that enters a gray zone. If no one could possibly identify the original source material, then you would have done something truly creative to the sound, turning it into something new, and therefore theoretically made it your own. But for this to be effective, you really do have to make it completely unrecognizable.

In my opinion, the general rule of thumb ought to be:

1) Don't take someone's sounds (sample, preset, music) essentially as-is and try to resell them as if they were your own creation. Instead of attempting to cut corners for a quick buck, try to be as creative as the people who made those sounds in the first place. No doubt you'll end up with a more interesting product, a reason to gain a good reputation, and you won't have to be concerned with legal issues.

2) If you do start with material someone else created, warp the hell out of it, be creative, put forth some effort, and turn it into something truly new.

If nothing else, put yourself in someone else's shoes. Lets say you made a product - you slaved over its creation, maybe paid musicians and engineers to record source material for you, did your original sound design, fine tuned your product, and hope to earn something for your time. Perhaps you even have your livelihood hanging on its success because of how much time and money you have invested in it. Then some guy comes along and resamples all your hard work and sells it or gives it away. How happy would you be about this? More than likely, you'd be mighty pissed...and rightfully so.

Sampling is one of those areas where I think the "golden rule" should be remembered and applied. Usually the only people that defend ripping off someone's work are people who haven't thought about getting ripped off themselves.

[yellowfever]

Usually the only people that defend ripping off someone's work are people who haven't thought about getting ripped off themselves.

I challenge you to read my posts above and correct your statement