Best amp sim for midrange "bluesy" long sustain w/o distortion?

[rcat]

WOW! Info up the ass-bestos. I love this place!

[lfm]

As pure VST plugin: Simulanalog the Twin

As pedal: Damage Control's Womanizer
The sweepable parametric filter can make you catch very interesting tones
pre and post EQ
compressor is pretty good
Real vacuum tubes of course
Two states with normal and nuclear

As amp for studio: Koch Studiotone
both preamp and poweramp tubes
internal resistor to take the heat and make it usable even at home in an appartment. Pressing the poweramp to the limit.
Direct outputs with selectable 1x12 4x12 cabinet and two mike positions
foot pedal with three states - clean, overdrive and overdriveplus
Really versatile, but even more so if changing first tube to 12AT7 with lower gain(for humbucker anyway, I found the clean channel not clean at all).

[zeoy]

I love my amp sims but I like micing my amps better. I'm about to try a hybrid solution.
I'll build a DIY attenuator with line-out. I hope I'll get the nice compression and break up of power tubes at lower volumes and use either a mic or the line-out signal (with VST cab sims of course) to capture this sound.
The cost for the attenuator parts is between 30-40 Euros. I know lots of people say attenuators suck but I've heard great tones coming out of a cranked bluesbraker at bedroom levels using an ancient marshall attenuator. YMMV of course

[Uncle E]

What I'm looking for is long sustain with an abundance of harmonics, and no harsh highs or muddy lows.

You just described the Tech 21 British pedal. As far as software goes, the Amplitube 2 Jimi Hendrix Edition's Hey Joe patches are excellent.

[zerocrossing]

How about using: Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer Guitar Effects Pedal before yer Amp-Sim?

Very different thing. Electronic signal compression is basically an auto variable gain control. As the signal dies out, the gain gets cranked. So your signal stays louder, but so does the noise. A Sustainiac actually feeds energy back into the vibrating string in a similar way to how kinetic energy from moving air molecules keep your string vibrating from a cranked amp/cab. One version does it magnetically (the one I have) and the other does it kinetically.

[Uncle E]

We come to this every time there's an amp modeling thread, but I'll bring it up again. If you're using an amp modeler, you better be installing a Sustainiac, or using the model B (no install). On full power it's like having an ebow in each string, but at moderate settings it just gives you that nice feeling that you're next to a cranked amp even when you're playing though headphones.

The Softube Acoustic Feedback plug-in has nearly the same effect, the Sustainiac is better (very cool recommendation, btw) but the Softube is surprisingly good.

[Aloysius]

@ zerocrossing

Sounds great! Thanks for explaining!

[Uncle E]

How about using: Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer Guitar Effects Pedal before yer Amp-Sim?

Agreed. A good Ross or Keeley compressor can even make a good amp sound more amp-like (if that makes any sense) so it can only help software where that natural tube compression is one of the major things still lacking. I wonder how the tube EH Black Finger would fare?

[chilln]

How about using: Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer Guitar Effects Pedal before yer Amp-Sim?

Agreed. A good Ross or Keeley compressor can even make a good amp sound more amp-like (if that makes any sense) so it can only help software where that natural tube compression is one of the major things still lacking. I wonder how the tube EH Black Finger would fare?

That EHBF looks interesting. I saved the JRR URL.

[susiwong]

How about using: Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer Guitar Effects Pedal before yer Amp-Sim?

Agreed. A good Ross or Keeley compressor can even make a good amp sound more amp-like (if that makes any sense) so it can only help software where that natural tube compression is one of the major things still lacking. I wonder how the tube EH Black Finger would fare?

Personally I don't use any PC ampsim without Bootsie's FerricTDS and/or Density II, experiment with position, combinations and settings but keep the sidechain filter on the high side (200 to 250 Hz in both cases).
Most believable tube poweramp compression emulation I've found yet, in hardware or in software.
Still, the mentioned tube preamps ( and some of Dean's suggestions, too) are in a different league, and really affordable too (90 € for the HK, 300 € for the Marshall and 300 to 400 € for the Mesa, all s/h).
The Studio Pre is a MK IIc preamp btw, completely different from the Formula and V-Twin designs which are rectal based.
Not better or worse, just different.
Ymmv,
susiwong

[metalifuxx]

The Studio Pre is a MK IIc preamp btw, completely different from the Formula and V-Twin designs which are rectal based.
Not better or worse, just different.
Ymmv,
susiwong

My friend had a Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp and a Mesa power amp going into a 4x12 cab. Years later when we got more into recording, he still can't believe he had sold it at the time. They are rare and hard to find now. If you see one for sale with a reasonable price, buy it, you wont regret it. He still talks about it as being the best tone he has ever gotten for recording, and that was using it direct into a cheap Fostex cassette 4-track, with not too much recording/mixing knowledge.

[guitarzan]

The Studio Pre is a MK IIc preamp btw, completely different from the Formula and V-Twin designs which are rectal based.
Not better or worse, just different.
Ymmv,
susiwong

My friend had a Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp and a Mesa power amp going into a 4x12 cab. Years later when we got more into recording, he still can't believe he had sold it at the time. They are rare and hard to find now. If you see one for sale with a reasonable price, buy it, you wont regret it. He still talks about it as being the best tone he has ever gotten for recording, and that was using it direct into a cheap Fostex cassette 4-track, with not too much recording/mixing knowledge.

I know a lot of people would disagree, but I owned a Mesa Boogie Studio Pre for over a year and I consistently preferred my much cheaper Soho QTR-1 preamp in every way, so I sold the Mesa and still have the Soho....the Soho QTR-1 is the same circuit as the Kittyhawk Quattro but with all the reliability issues taken car of. I think I paid $75 for it!

[susiwong]

I know a lot of people would disagree, but I owned a Mesa Boogie Studio Pre for over a year and I consistently preferred my much cheaper Soho QTR-1 preamp in every way, so I sold the Mesa and still have the Soho....the Soho QTR-1 is the same circuit as the Kittyhawk Quattro but with all the reliability issues taken car of. I think I paid $75 for it!

Don't know if it's anything to go by as I don't know that SOHO, never seen one :

I recently was forced to pick up an '86 Kitty Hawk Junior head (same period as the Quattro) due to a ridiculously low price , and that thing is really nice, but sounds completely different from any Boogie I've ever heard, same from any Kitty Hawk I had over the years.
It's actually pretty close to my JMP 50W Lead 1987 in character but has higher gain, not too surprising given its 2xEL34 power stage.
Strange, very versatile tonestack, possibly active, not my cup of tea personally, but I could see somebody enjoying just that ...
The Mesa Studio on the other hand is just like a good Mark Boogie, it shines where they shine and it has the same weaknesses, too.
Love it or hate it ...
Still, one of the best I've found for the OP's question.

So thanks for the heads up with the SOHO, will keep an eye open for a used one, though my hopes aren't high, were they ever sold in Europe ?

Cheers,
susiwong

[Uncle E]

Personally I don't use any PC ampsim without Bootsie's FerricTDS and/or Density II, experiment with position, combinations and settings but keep the sidechain filter on the high side (200 to 250 Hz in both cases).
Most believable tube poweramp compression emulation I've found yet, in hardware or in software.

Nice! Now that you mention it, the IK Opto Compressor would be good for that, too. Anyway, I'll just keep using my compressor pedal in addition to any of those plug-ins since that's how I use my amps.

Still, the mentioned tube preamps ( and some of Dean's suggestions, too) are in a different league, and really affordable too (90 € for the HK, 300 € for the Marshall and 300 to 400 € for the Mesa, all s/h).

tbh, I've always found the H&K to lack that power amp compression. Furthermore, I don't even think it's just power amp compression we're looking for since placing a DI after the power amp/before the speaker also doesn't quite capture it, even with Recabinet. One of the best DI'd tones I've ever gotten was by putting a Blue Dragonfly on the Mackie HR824 that was being used to monitor a Rocktron Prophecy 2000, it's almost like the sound had to spend some time in the air before it could feel like a real amp!

The Studio Pre is a MK IIc preamp btw, completely different from the Formula and V-Twin designs which are rectal based.

Where does the Studio .22 fit in that hierarchy? Does it have the same preamp as the Studio Pre?

[susiwong]

Hi Eric,
the Studio 22 (+) is rather similar, also from the Mk II era.
Less features (character switches) in the pre but a wonderful 2xEL84 power amp, arguably one of the best sounding Boogies for club jobs and (mic'ed) recording.
Again, probably not for die-hard Marshall fans or metal heads.
Btw, against common theory, I personally never understood the sonic appeal of the EQ on these amps, all my favourite tones were without it.

Interesting about the mic'ed monitor, you might be on to something there.
A bit complicated for everyday use, though.

You're correct, the Tubeman 1 (forget the 2) is not quite on the same level as the big tube pres, but still it records quite well imho.
And I always carry one as emergency backup for live, as long as you have a monitor in front of you it helps you finish the gig in case your amp breaks down.
A true Swiss army knife ...

Ymmv,
susiwong