Btw, thanks to this thread I wound up dusting off my Yanni cds and am listening to them. Some really nice production values here. Even some of the early Peter Baumann productions aren't too bad. The music of course, is great... even on some of the very early pieces where the equipment really wasn't always up to the challenge of what Y was asking of it! Except... is it just my ears or is the opening piano on Butterfly Dance (from Optimistique) kind of out of tune? Ouch!
But all of that is probably a discussion for a different thread!
Anyway... Thanks, ljcd!
Please recommand suitable reverb for solo piano
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- KVRist
- 128 posts since 29 Jun, 2010 from Funky Broadway
God damn it grinds my gears when Freeware VSTs insist on installing themselves, clogging up Add Programs. Fully understand it for those who use the Install routine as some form of copy protection, but Pverb doesn't.Download SOphist wrote:sorry for the OT, but has anybody managed to install it under win7? i miss my pianoverb.thecontrolcentre wrote:PSP Pianoverb is great, and it's free
Playing 60s and 70s FUNKY KEYS on Cantabile Lite hosting freeware vintage keyboards and organs on a plastic keyboard MIDI'd into a refurbished laptop.
Soul is freeware, so freeware your soul.
Soul is freeware, so freeware your soul.
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- KVRist
- 342 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Perth, Western Australia
I was very nervous about parting with the cash, but one of the best VSTs I ever bought was easily Aether. http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/index.html It turns any sound into music (almost). The sounds "bleed" so nicely and you can set it so that it only adds reverb to the tail or head of each sound. So I'd thoroughly recommend it.
Listening to your music right now, Sequent ... It's lovely.
You really ought to consider simplifying the buying procedure. I tried the buy button on your MySpace tracks but nothing happened, then I went to your distributor's site and clicked on your album (which was hard to find on the front page). Nothing happened when I did click anyway. So I gave up - after about 3 persistent minutes I'll have you know.
I use Bandcamp.com as it's very easy to set up and they don't take a cent. I've only sold 3 EPs but I'm not a musician like you - just a dabbler.
So where can we buy your music / an "album". Or if you're not "selling" can we download some tracks?
EDIT / STOP PRESS: Went back to your distributors site and found you on the "catalog" page. When I clicked "Add to cart" it informed me under the banner "Intensive Communications" (should really have been R Cat records) that "This recipient is currently unable to receive money."
Listening to your music right now, Sequent ... It's lovely.
You really ought to consider simplifying the buying procedure. I tried the buy button on your MySpace tracks but nothing happened, then I went to your distributor's site and clicked on your album (which was hard to find on the front page). Nothing happened when I did click anyway. So I gave up - after about 3 persistent minutes I'll have you know.
I use Bandcamp.com as it's very easy to set up and they don't take a cent. I've only sold 3 EPs but I'm not a musician like you - just a dabbler.
So where can we buy your music / an "album". Or if you're not "selling" can we download some tracks?
EDIT / STOP PRESS: Went back to your distributors site and found you on the "catalog" page. When I clicked "Add to cart" it informed me under the banner "Intensive Communications" (should really have been R Cat records) that "This recipient is currently unable to receive money."
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- KVRist
- 32 posts since 29 Oct, 2009
Another couple of thoughts and paths to consider-
One is that the nature of your reverb is at least partially in what you send it- Consider manipulating the sound qualities of the source to the verb.
Second is consider options to mix in with the direct instrument sound other forms of treatment. A few possible examples might be parallel compression (or expansion!). Parallel mix paths (which are often also used eq'd to high light') would likely enable you to extract, and place the resonances and tones happening within the instrument while keeping the dynamic range and tone of the original.
These could as well be choices as sources to feed the verb.
..add- Doing fairly basic music here typically.. But thumbs up for Aether as a damned good solid reverb (and more..) just the same.
One is that the nature of your reverb is at least partially in what you send it- Consider manipulating the sound qualities of the source to the verb.
Second is consider options to mix in with the direct instrument sound other forms of treatment. A few possible examples might be parallel compression (or expansion!). Parallel mix paths (which are often also used eq'd to high light') would likely enable you to extract, and place the resonances and tones happening within the instrument while keeping the dynamic range and tone of the original.
These could as well be choices as sources to feed the verb.
..add- Doing fairly basic music here typically.. But thumbs up for Aether as a damned good solid reverb (and more..) just the same.
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- KVRAF
- 2813 posts since 14 Feb, 2001 from What do you care? :)
I love Aether and it's capable of some extraordinary sounds indeed. Personally I have yet to use it on any released tracks as of yet, but it's going to figure quite heavily in everything from here on in.
Thanks very much for the kind words regarding my music, objectman. I really appreciate it!
I'm sorry about the trouble purchasing from myspace... that never did seem to work properly for me and obviously doesn't work still!
The distributor's site is also a problem because apparently they had someone try to attack their site and are still trying to get things fixed. By far the best place to get things is iTunes. You can also get it via Amazon, Rhapsody, eMusic and some other places. All the ones that I named are authorized to sell my stuff and also pretty reputable to deal with.
I'm sorry for the trouble. If you want you can pm me and we can sort it out.
Also thanks for the info on bandcamp. I will check them out. Because of the trouble you mentioned, I've been exploring other options, so I'm open to suggestions. THANKS!
Sorry everyone for sidetracking the thread. Okay now back to the discussion at hand!
Thanks very much for the kind words regarding my music, objectman. I really appreciate it!
I'm sorry about the trouble purchasing from myspace... that never did seem to work properly for me and obviously doesn't work still!
The distributor's site is also a problem because apparently they had someone try to attack their site and are still trying to get things fixed. By far the best place to get things is iTunes. You can also get it via Amazon, Rhapsody, eMusic and some other places. All the ones that I named are authorized to sell my stuff and also pretty reputable to deal with.
I'm sorry for the trouble. If you want you can pm me and we can sort it out.
Also thanks for the info on bandcamp. I will check them out. Because of the trouble you mentioned, I've been exploring other options, so I'm open to suggestions. THANKS!
Sorry everyone for sidetracking the thread. Okay now back to the discussion at hand!
objectman wrote:I was very nervous about parting with the cash, but one of the best VSTs I ever bought was easily Aether. http://www.2caudio.com/products/aether/index.html It turns any sound into music (almost). The sounds "bleed" so nicely and you can set it so that it only adds reverb to the tail or head of each sound. So I'd thoroughly recommend it.
Listening to your music right now, Sequent ... It's lovely.
You really ought to consider simplifying the buying procedure. I tried the buy button on your MySpace tracks but nothing happened, then I went to your distributor's site and clicked on your album (which was hard to find on the front page). Nothing happened when I did click anyway. So I gave up - after about 3 persistent minutes I'll have you know.
I use Bandcamp.com as it's very easy to set up and they don't take a cent. I've only sold 3 EPs but I'm not a musician like you - just a dabbler.
So where can we buy your music / an "album". Or if you're not "selling" can we download some tracks?
EDIT / STOP PRESS: Went back to your distributors site and found you on the "catalog" page. When I clicked "Add to cart" it informed me under the banner "Intensive Communications" (should really have been R Cat records) that "This recipient is currently unable to receive money."
Available on iTunes, Amazon, etc.
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- KVRAF
- 3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW
A few notes from a reverb designer's perspective:
Piano is often used as an example of a signal source that should NOT be processed by modulated reverb. A piano note consists of a bunch of fairly steady state pitches - there is beating, but no vibrato. The pitch variation added by a modulated reverb will be more apparent on piano than on voice or drums.
However, modulated reverbs were quickly adopted as a signature sound of ambient and New Age music, almost as soon as the hardware reverbs hit the market. The Eno/Budd albums made heavy use of the modulated reverbs found in the EMT250 (and probably the Lexicon 224 later on). So, the sound the original poster is seeking is probably a modulated reverb.
Not all reverbs modulate alike. I have heard some that clearly use a single quadrature oscillator for the modulation, which results in a fairly obvious pitch warble in the sound. Ideally, the reverb would have a modulation pattern which is difficult to impossible to perceive, and is just heard as "lushness." This can be achieved by different modulators in parallel, modulators that are randomized instead of periodic, or a multi-phase modulator.
My first suggestion would be Eos, as, well, I designed the reverb algorithms in that plugin.
SuperHall has a reverb that was specifically designed to get that Budd/Eno sound for piano sounds. The pitch modulation is randomized and highly parallel, and is intended to result in no net pitch change in the output (purely random modulators can result in pitch changes when all the modulators are going in the same direction).
As far as the other reverbs mentioned, here's my take on things:
- Redline Reverb uses an 8-phase modulator for its modulation, and can sound very nice with low modulation speeds and medium depths.
- Aether has a lot of parallelization in its modulation, so it would be a good choice.
- The Lexicon PCM bundle is pretty expensive. The Concert Hall is based on the classic 224 algorithm, but uses a simpler form of modulation that doesn't have the randomness of the original algorithm. Random Hall apparently uses a modulation scheme that results in less obvious pitch change.
- The upcoming LX480 plugin from Relab has a Random Hall algorithm that is supposed to sound very nice.
- I wouldn't recommend any convolution units. You want that modulated sound, and convolution just can't do that properly.
A few general hints:
- Don't be afraid to bring the high frequencies WAY down. Set the high frequency decay to a much shorter length than the long frequencies, adjust any high frequency filters to a low cutoff and low gain, etc.
- Set the Size to a large value, to avoid metallic sounds.
- Play with the Diffusion controls, to get the right balance of echo density versus coloration.
Hope this helps,
Sean
Piano is often used as an example of a signal source that should NOT be processed by modulated reverb. A piano note consists of a bunch of fairly steady state pitches - there is beating, but no vibrato. The pitch variation added by a modulated reverb will be more apparent on piano than on voice or drums.
However, modulated reverbs were quickly adopted as a signature sound of ambient and New Age music, almost as soon as the hardware reverbs hit the market. The Eno/Budd albums made heavy use of the modulated reverbs found in the EMT250 (and probably the Lexicon 224 later on). So, the sound the original poster is seeking is probably a modulated reverb.
Not all reverbs modulate alike. I have heard some that clearly use a single quadrature oscillator for the modulation, which results in a fairly obvious pitch warble in the sound. Ideally, the reverb would have a modulation pattern which is difficult to impossible to perceive, and is just heard as "lushness." This can be achieved by different modulators in parallel, modulators that are randomized instead of periodic, or a multi-phase modulator.
My first suggestion would be Eos, as, well, I designed the reverb algorithms in that plugin.
SuperHall has a reverb that was specifically designed to get that Budd/Eno sound for piano sounds. The pitch modulation is randomized and highly parallel, and is intended to result in no net pitch change in the output (purely random modulators can result in pitch changes when all the modulators are going in the same direction).As far as the other reverbs mentioned, here's my take on things:
- Redline Reverb uses an 8-phase modulator for its modulation, and can sound very nice with low modulation speeds and medium depths.
- Aether has a lot of parallelization in its modulation, so it would be a good choice.
- The Lexicon PCM bundle is pretty expensive. The Concert Hall is based on the classic 224 algorithm, but uses a simpler form of modulation that doesn't have the randomness of the original algorithm. Random Hall apparently uses a modulation scheme that results in less obvious pitch change.
- The upcoming LX480 plugin from Relab has a Random Hall algorithm that is supposed to sound very nice.
- I wouldn't recommend any convolution units. You want that modulated sound, and convolution just can't do that properly.
A few general hints:
- Don't be afraid to bring the high frequencies WAY down. Set the high frequency decay to a much shorter length than the long frequencies, adjust any high frequency filters to a low cutoff and low gain, etc.
- Set the Size to a large value, to avoid metallic sounds.
- Play with the Diffusion controls, to get the right balance of echo density versus coloration.
Hope this helps,
Sean
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- KVRist
- 342 posts since 17 Nov, 2007 from Perth, Western Australia
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- KVRAF
- 2824 posts since 22 Mar, 2006 from cornwall
Doesn't Reverberate have modulation built into it?valhallasound wrote: - I wouldn't recommend any convolution units. You want that modulated sound, and convolution just can't do that properly.
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- KVRAF
- 3426 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Pacific NW
Reverberate has chorusing post-convolution, which will result in a different sound than an algorithmic reverb that has modulation within the recursive loop (i.e. EMT250, Lex 224/XL, Eos, Aether, Redline). Modulated algorithmic reverbs have sidebands that build in amplitude as the reverb decays. In other words, the decay of the reverb gets more and more "detuned."dickiefunk wrote:Doesn't Reverberate have modulation built into it?valhallasound wrote: - I wouldn't recommend any convolution units. You want that modulated sound, and convolution just can't do that properly.
Chorusing the output of a convolution reverb (or any reverb) will result in a sound that has the same amount of detuning throughout the duration of the decay. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - it will give you a more focused sense of pitch for the piano. It will be different from that classic expensive hardware reverb sound, but it might work for your needs.
The EMT250 combined both recursive modulation and chorusing of the outputs. The outputs were taken from different parts of the network and modulated before being recombined, which gives a greater degree of complexity than processing the stereo outputs of a reverb with a chorus.
Sean
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- KVRian
- 1156 posts since 10 Apr, 2006
+1 for aether. very VERY nice verb. if you have none at all, get this one...you can use it for pretty much anything.
i also like artsacoustic reverb for this sort of stuff.
kell
i also like artsacoustic reverb for this sort of stuff.
kell
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- KVRAF
- 44218 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from clown world
I would imagine that you'd have to be very careful about reverb times. Sure, you can use 'super halls' but if the notes keep on ringing before the reverb has a chance to decay, then there is a chance that the reverb buildup will become discordant. If you play an 'A' and an 'A#' within a short space of time, using a large hall preset, these two note will still be 'playing' (sustained) while you add another note or notes to the whole mush. Just a thought!
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- KVRist
- 369 posts since 13 Jun, 2006 from Cornwall, UK
Hi All,
Hope I'm not too late to add another +1 for Aether - it's a wonderful reverb with a host of truly creative possibilities, and I've been using it ever since I reviewed it in SOS September 2009
My review is now on-line here if anyone wants to find out more:
www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep09/articles/aether.htm
Hope it proves useful!
Martin
Hope I'm not too late to add another +1 for Aether - it's a wonderful reverb with a host of truly creative possibilities, and I've been using it ever since I reviewed it in SOS September 2009
My review is now on-line here if anyone wants to find out more:
www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep09/articles/aether.htm
Hope it proves useful!
Martin