7/8 Timing Composition Tips?

[warp x]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?

Write the music first, and then see what time sig it's in.

[Ogg Vorbis]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?

I am curious...why specifically 7/8? Why not 11/4 or 5/16?

[apolo]

I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?

I am curious...why specifically 7/8? Why not 11/4 or 5/16?

Or even 7/1...!

[jens]

Sorry if this is too basic. But what helped me compose in 7/8 was realising that the main pulse of the beat falls on 1, 3, 5 and 7. @Jens why not try new things? It may be forced at first, but before long you'll be humming a new tune in your head only to realise you're in 7/8 just because it felt right

Yes, try new things! Absolutely!


But why 7/8? What I say is: if you compose something that has its own certain flow, then you might find it's not 4/4 at all - it could be anything, e.g. 6/8, 7/8, 9/8, 5/4, 11/8 or even 11/16, 15/16 or whatever. In fact it could even change from bar to bar.

But if you go and force another arbitrary restriction upon you, which you're not even familiar with at all, to replace the old restriction you are familiar with, that's imo just stupid.

[jens]

I think 7/8 rocks and is not an "odd" time signature at all. Western music is so restricted by the constant 4/4 thing, even 3/4 seems odd to some people. That's the burden of european "art" music which still dominates popular music.
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/seven-ways

I disagree - there have always been plenty of examples of odd time-signatures in western culture which have been quite popular - but if music is composed with the 'mind' rather than with the 'heart' (i.e. 'academic' music) then chances are it will not happen to be very popular - and deservedly so imo.


And of course 7/8 is odd - 'odd' means 'ungerade' in German (und wir beide sind uns ja wohl darin einig, dass die sieben eine ungerade Zahl ist, gell?)

[apolo]

If you have the chance find sheet music of Dream Theater you will be amazed at all the tricks and maneuvers handling tempo. Another good example "Pictures at an Exhibition" by Mussorgsky...

[kbaccki]

But if you go and force another arbitrary restriction upon you, which you're not even familiar with at all, to replace the old restriction you are familiar with, that's imo just stupid.

You have to start somewhere, right? If you never try to incorporate new things (maybe even inappropriately ), you'd never extend your creative pallette. Maybe that means trying to cram a b5 chord where it doesn't belong... but at least you tried. After a long while (you know, like decades ) of collecting and playing with ideas and experimentations maybe you figure out that the tune you did in 7/8 ten years ago sounds a bit contrived. But you also learned alot from that experiment, and now you can hear and feel where maybe you want to throw in a couple measures of 7/8 into a 4/4 tune to accentuate some break or whatever. The best way to learn is to do, IMO.

[jens]

But he didn't ask for help on 'how to get started using odd time-signatures' - I think I could have offered quite some help with that one.

[kbaccki]

But he didn't ask for help on 'how to get started using odd time-signatures' - I think I could have offered quite some help with that one.

Oh. I thought that's what was meant by "I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?". Substitute "7/8" with "5/4", "9/8", "11/8", etc., and to me it sounds like someone trying to wrap their head around odd time signatures. If you agree, feel free to jump in! No reason this thread has to be about 7/8 only... the broader and ongoing discussions tend to have nuggets of useful insight and experience...

[Ogg Vorbis]

But he didn't ask for help on 'how to get started using odd time-signatures' - I think I could have offered quite some help with that one.

Oh. I thought that's what was meant by "I want to start making tracks in 7/8 timing, but I can't quite figure out how to fit the notes in there and actually be able to follow it. Any tips?". Substitute "7/8" with "5/4", "9/8", "11/8", etc., and to me it sounds like someone trying to wrap their head around odd time signatures. If you agree, feel free to jump in! No reason this thread has to be about 7/8 only... the broader and ongoing discussions tend to have nuggets of useful insight and experience...

You are reading a lot of information into the OP. Here's what I read..."I think the idea of music in 7/8 sounds cool and mysterious. I have no idea what the "8" means and a vague idea of what the "7" means. Rather than learning about meter systematically, I just want to jump into the cool end of the pool now and let the acedemic losers worry about the details."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I suspect you are as well.

[kbaccki]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I suspect you are as well.

It seems to me that anyone reading the thread has 3 choices. 1.) Ignore the thread, don't post a response. 2.) Post a response, engage the OP in dicussion. 3.) Pee on the thread. Responses like "why would you ever want to do that?" falls into category #3, IMO, and I don't see why there's a need for it.

[jens]

No, I disagree about that latter bit of your post - I asked a question and he was free to give a reply we could work with. Instead he chose to ignoree my post.
It admit my post was kind of inflammatory, but that was on purpose to make him think about what exactly he actually wants to do and why he wants it.

I also have to admit that I have an agenda. Odd time-signatures do not neccessarrily have to be academic wankery - but usually they are and this annoys me - I would hope folks finally learn to have a more natural approach to uncommon techniques, tools and methods.

[EvilDragon]

This is very helpful, actually.


Not to me, but to OP I handle my 15/16 rather well, thank you very much!

[ariston]

Just program a simple beat in 7/8 and start to jam with it. It's not a breathtakingly common signature and it takes experience to make it work, to get into the flow of it and actually make music with it. At the beginning, you'll have to constantly count the beats in order to stay with it, but with practice, 7/8 will feel as natural as 4/4 to you.

Listen to Peter Gabriel's "Solsbury Hill", which to me is a fine example of a 7/4 beat that really works - people with no musical training don't even notice the odd signature on this one! Unless you're going for that "I'll club you across the head with my cleverness" vibe that groups like Dream Theater seem to love, in which case you'll want to really advertise your odd signatures by making music that sounds robotic, static and edgy.

[kbaccki]

It admit my post was kind of inflammatory, but that was on purpose to make him think about what exactly he actually wants to do and why he wants it.

I know that. But maybe there are more effective ways to fertilize that discussion than throwing around words like "retarted[sic]".

I also have to admit that I have an agenda. Odd time-signatures do not neccessarrily have to be academic wankery - but usually they are and this annoys me - I would hope folks finally learn to have a more natural approach to uncommon techniques, tools and methods.

I understand your point. I don't necessarily agree with it, as my own musical experience led me to explore the practical aspects of these types of things from a relatively early musical age... odd times, polyrhythms, whatever. OK, so I was listening to Moving Pictures, Stewart Copeland, etc., over and over. Even if this thread devolves into a list of useful/entertaining youtube links, that's not such a bad thing...