One-Synth-Challenge 28: Tyrell N6 - Submissions and gossip [Rules updated]

[V'ger]

Because I'm not allowed to use EQ, apply sends like reverb / delay to fit it in the mix or alike.

The current patch I'm using is taken 20% CPU already. EQ is needed sometimes to fit something into the mix. Same goes for delay / reverb. Obviously pads will take also heavy CPU and I might want to apply some delay or reverb to that. And this rule says, if I bounce that pad to audio, I can't apply reveb / delay.

That's why.

No you misunderstand as there's nothing that you can't bounce with all effects on.

I know there's not big difference from applying after, but if there's no rule, things can be done to the samples that the synth cannot do which defeats the purpose. One could in effect use a sampler.

[hakey]

I know there's not big difference from applying after

But there is...

According to those rules, if you've bounced tracks down, you can't subsequently do things like applying reverb or EQ across the whole mix - both of which are quite common when mastering.

[V'ger]

Hm you got a point there. But how to prevent abuse of samples and/or turning the whole thing into a sampler competition if processing of samples is set free? Just specify certain master effects only?

[elipsis1]

I normally will freeze stuff in ableton so I can just get the track done, but the render is no frozen tracks, and the render is either realtime or resampled.

For those who may not know: in ableton live you can resample tracks that have 100%+ CPU usage and it should sound fine after you reach the end of recording. I have done this a lot with omnisphere based tracks.

Question: tyrell is mono only am I correct?

[tibah]

I get this point now.

Not everyone is using mixing tools already in the writing stage. Bouncing in this case just helps to use the same source material while still being able to use more instances of the same instrument.

For example: I now have 6 instance of TyrellN6 running. Nearly 40% CPU usage already. Now I go to bounce some parts and I have more performance again. I can load another 4 instances maybe. Wait a minute. Now my EQ settings made in first place are not working any longer. So I have to jump between the performance my PC got to offer and the requirements of OSC.

Also I don't really see a reason to not use send effects on audio. It's a common technique. Why would only I use inserts just to fit OSC rules?

I do like to bounce to audio before any mixing is applied to be able to use my full processing power just for effects. I don't have the newest PC around and my type of producing can lead to 20-30 synth-layers per project. And mixing is always a long process for me. Tweaking on some parts, then bounce them with effects, then tweak the next parts is simply unefficient.

Rules are important and I bet everyone that is contributing to OSC gets the main idea behind it, which means, not to sample a synthesizer and run it trough a granular effect.

Damn took to long for this post

Hm you got a point there. But how to prevent abuse of samples and/or turning the whole thing into a sampler competition if processing of samples is set free? Just specify certain master effects only?

Like said, I think everyone that contributes get the idea of OSC. It's about the synth itself, not about weird sample manipulation and morphing beyond recognition. That's difficult.

I guess there just should be one simple rule that represents that any bounced material should be processed the same way that one would've processed the synth.

[V'ger]

Yes it doesn't make sense to have a rule meant to prevent abuse stifle acceptable use and songmaking when all it needs is a rewording, so like you suggest, maybe add:

"No samples or live sounds like voice etc allowed. You are however allowed to bounce sounds or tracks of the synth to save CPU etc as long as the bounced material is not processed any differently from how you would have processed the original."

Anyone think of a better wording or something to add?

Also I don't really see a reason to not use send effects on audio. It's a common technique. Why would only I use inserts just to fit OSC rules?

Send effects are of course allowed.

[A.M. Gold]

This is a great and exciting choice. Maybe the best synth chosen so far for this competition. I may finally get off my ass and submit something.

And, yea, there will be lots of track freezing in the process.

[hakey]

"No samples or live sounds like voice etc allowed. You are however allowed to bounce sounds or tracks of the synth to save CPU etc as long as the bounced material is not processed any differently from how you would have processed the original."

Yes, that sounds reasonable.

Further, considering Tyrell's appetite for cpu cycles using separate instances to repeatedly play the same kick, snare, hihat etc seems a bit OTT, so perhaps using samples of Tyrell to build a drum kit should be allowed - so long as the samples are triggered straight and not further processed in a way that would contravene the spirit of the contest (no sample editing, repitching, filtering, changes in dynamics etc)?

Bouncing down multiple tracks to make a bar of percussion and then copy/pasting is de facto sampling anyway.

[V'ger]

Velocity layered? And just for drums? I find anyway drum sounds doesn't take all that much juice?

About cut/copy/paste bounced material it is sampling in a way, but doesn't sound completely right as that opens for chop bits which one couldn't always do with original synth part (think pad f.i.).

Certainly good to pull out the stops from best song results and not favor good computers over lesser, just feel a can of worms being opened here. I suppose a good rule wording could cover most of it, anyone care to try?

Other views?

[Doc Jon]

"No samples or live sounds like voice etc allowed. You are however allowed to bounce sounds or tracks of the synth to save CPU etc as long as the bounced material is not processed any differently from how you would have processed the original."

Sounds good to me, I think this makes it quite clear, and probably does need to be addressed this month 'cos my PC is weeping with pain

Jon

[hakey]

About cut/copy/paste bounced material it is sampling in a way, but doesn't sound completely right as that opens for chop bits which one couldn't always do with original synth part

Just have the rule say that for convenience or cpu saving bouncing down/sampling processes are allowed but only where the exact same result could have been achieved using the original synth.

[tomtoo]

Sounds good to me, I think this makes it quite clear, and probably does need to be addressed this month 'cos my PC is weeping with pain

Jon

While my composter gently weeps.

Greatings
Thomas

[V'ger]

Just have the rule say that for convenience or cpu saving bouncing down/sampling processes are allowed but only where the exact same result could have been achieved using the original synth.

That's pretty short and sweet.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

how does using effects such as stereo spread and mono-ising fit into this ??

so far i have used a few instances of 'gain', in logic, to convert some of the stereo sounds (bass, kick) to mono...is this allowed ??

i have also used 'stereo spread', also in logic, to widen the spread of one of the sounds...allowed ??

[V'ger]

I can't see any better way to word it than what Hakey did, and adding something just seems to become the cause of confusion, so:

Rule update:

"No external samples or live sounds like voice, guitar etc allowed. However, for convenience or CPU saving, synth bouncing/sampling are allowed but only where the exact same result could have been achieved using the original synth."

But with the opening of sampling, entries will naturally be scrutinized more, and also just to include what was always possible, this rule will be added:

"OSC reserves the right to request project files, failure of compliance leading to disqualification. (intellectual property respected with file used for examination only and destroyed immediately afterwards)"