Automation with handles or bezier curves?

[spaceman]

another useful tool is the mute function available in most forums

but but.. bezier curves!
and 11

[Coda.]

In sound terms there would not be (much) audible difference, though some difference certainly, minor kinks in instrument pitch for example. I would imagine there being many more limitations for advanced audio tasks requiring precise logarithmic and exponential curves etc, dont forget none of us have actually used any Bezier curves in any kinds of audio context either.

In addition to the above there is a huge benefit to work flow obviously. Perhaps this is where you chaps are over looking things being mostly familiarized with audio applications.

To people who are used to working with graphics software the none Bezier automation in audio apps seems cumbersome, perhaps some of you should spend some extended time working with Bezier curves before first making judgments as to their usefulness in terms of workflow.

If you want to quickly gain an understanding, try attempting to re create the first Bezier curve I posted in your DAW. It will likely require an additional 5 to 10 automation points (if) you can do it all, which I doubt.

To plot those curves using Bezier would take only three or four seconds, in my DAW I wasn't able to match it even after two minuets.

[aMUSEd]

As I said try Podium (there is a free version) - it has probably the most comprehensive bezier curve implementation for automation in an audio host (barring possibly Logic which I have not tried yet)

[Coda.]

Ah, yes Ive been reading through the help files slowly as I only started exploring Podium last night. I haven't actually figured out its automation completely yet, but I will tonight.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[LawrenceF]

You would be surprised at how difficult it is to draw even an accurate sine wave shape without bezier handles.

Not really...

[jancivil]

In addition to the above there is a huge benefit to work flow obviously. Perhaps this is where you chaps are over looking things being mostly familiarized with audio applications.

I'm pretty much only interested in audio applications. you're rather underlining the points made that this 'bezier curve' is a graphical thrust. There's nothing obvious about its usefulness, even, to me.

the completely reasoned point that a host, eg., Cubase will resolve the curve as per your resolution settings anyway is the real-world application, the point that's been lost here.

if someone can demonstrate why a bezier is more useful, per se, than a parabola for a particular application that point will be made. It hasn't. As far as I know it's something compelling to people with an extramusical interest.

[jancivil]

In sound terms there would not be (much) audible difference, though some difference certainly, minor kinks in instrument pitch for example.

How so? I wouldn't know if there are people trying to get super-fine edit>instrumental< pitch changes strictly in the audio editor but I'm skeptical as to the musicality of the approach, from experience. As far as virtual instrument pitch, pitch bend *is* 14 bit, 8192 increments plus or minus, and the midi resolution in the display in eg., Cubase is going to be the other defining factor. and the prettiness of a graphical display does not necessarily equate to anything in music, I'm sorry, that's a little daft.

I do tons of automation in a mix, of all kinds of parameters. I don't buy that I'm missing anything by not have a bezier or a spline. I had zero familiarity with these words until KVR. If you can't hear it, there is no 'there' for me.

[hibidy]

lolz again.

Anyhow, on topic, it's wonderful to have options eh?

To the OP:

I use reaper personally. I'm not a big automation guy but it's nice to have nice clean lines when doing various things.

[aMUSEd]

I wouldn't expect any difference in sound so don't know why this is coming up - it's largely a workflow feature - I find it makes editing and control of curves far simpler as you have less control points - curves are made of just 2-3 nodes instead of potentially dozens (you need more short straight lines to make a really smooth approximation of a curve in hosts without beziers/splines - hence lots of points to edit if you want to change it). It's good to have as an option at least even if some people don't want or feel they need them.

Yes there is also I suppose the aesthetic factor of having a perfectly smooth curve instead of a set of straight lines but I doubt it has much impact on the sound if any and it is secondary.

[hibidy]

I wouldn't expect any difference in sound so don't know why this is coming up

Is it really a problem for people to want the cleanest visual properties when editing? Am I missing something here?????????

[LawrenceF]

I don't see any issue with it personally.

[hibidy]

I don't see any issue with it personally.

That would make as I count, 4 of us

[LawrenceF]

I think the "push back" (if I may use that term while not supposing to speak to those here pushing back) is more kinda asking what is the "critical" nature of it, as it's often presented that way, as something critical.

I wouldn't care if it was an option or not really.

[Coda.]

You would be surprised at how difficult it is to draw even an accurate sine wave shape without bezier handles.

Not really...

Your deliberately missing the point, its obvious I'm not talking about preset shapes. If you want to be smart tackle the first bezier shape.

[LawrenceF]

I wasn't trying to be smart man, I was just saying it's pretty easy to draw sine waves. If you meant something else other than what you actually said... my bad for the poor interpretation.

Carry on.