Access Virus vs. Z3TA2

[Uncle E]

Well, I wouldn't go that far... production has a lot to do with it as well. Surely there would be people who can make a Virus sound terrible, and other people who can make Synth1 sound magical

I contend that someone who's never before made music could sit down with a Virus and produce something that sounds as good as most commercially released dance music currently being made. I personally do not believe there are too many native softsynths outside of Omnisphere and DIVA that can provide this kind of experience. Also, I personally have not been able to make Z3ta+ 2 sound as good as the Virus TI2 (although I've gotten DIVA to sound much, much better ).

[Examigan]

z3ta is only 6% of the quality of the Virus? That's not too good.

synthmaster 2.0 was best at tone feeling at least. but needed some more like bug or filter range control. I think..

Have you heard Rob Lee's audio demo of his new presets for 2.5?

http://soundcloud.com/rob_lee/synthmast ... on-a-audio

The filters are sounding great to me

[debby]

Have you heard Rob Lee's audio demo of his new presets for 2.5?

http://soundcloud.com/rob_lee/synthmast ... on-a-audio

The filters are sounding great to me

Well.. If I know I hope to post my sm2.0 demo.. But, I don't know it. and I don't want to talk about it. Just If you didn't feel it at sm2.0, I don't know what can I say.

[zerocrossing]

As an ex-Virus C owner I found it super easy to shed that big black box in favor of the soft synths of the time... which were, if memory serves, z3ta+, Zebra 2, Sytrus, Korg's Legacy Collection v1... those are the ones that come to mind, I'm sure there were others. Sure the Virus has good effects, but just run separate VST effects and you'll get that. I don't think I've heard a hardware synth that has a beautiful a reverb as Virsyn's Reflect, Virus included.

Now, if for some reason computers were outlawed and we all had to go back to only hardware, yes, I'd be first in line for a Virus. I did really like it. However, the difference between hardware VA and software VA never seemed enough to warrant the money and space one took up. On the other hand, the difference between all VA and analog hardware still makes it worth while to have a few analog synths around, even though offerings from U-He, XILS, FXpansion and Admiral Quality inch ever closer to that "ideal." Haven't totally nailed it yet though.

[GeorgeZ]

Well, I wouldn't go that far... production has a lot to do with it as well. Surely there would be people who can make a Virus sound terrible, and other people who can make Synth1 sound magical

I contend that someone who's never before made music could sit down with a Virus and produce something that sounds as good as most commercially released dance music currently being made. I personally do not believe there are too many native softsynths outside of Omnisphere and DIVA that can provide this kind of experience. Also, I personally have not been able to make Z3ta+ 2 sound as good as the Virus TI2 (although I've gotten DIVA to sound much, much better ).

I guess that's then is the crux of the story. It's purely personal (didn't really like DIVA's sound tbh... demo'd it during that "free-use" period in Dec and was underwhelmed). Not a bad synth, but I can't see what the hype is about there...

@OP ...and there we go, the hype around every synth/effect/DAW is a congregation of positive opinions rolled together, which seems overwhelmingly, disproportionally positive when looking at it from the "outside". This general convergence of collective positive opinion usually doesn't mean squat though I find (heaps of people dribble over DIVA, I don't get it... I guess I like a more digital, clinical tone in a synth, Tone2 Gladiator for instance, therefore I guess my opinion will always be different to that of the analogVST seekers [but funnily enough, it usually isn't]).

[ianbetts]

Not sure if it's some kind of April Fool, but surprised this tit-bit has not been picked up by more people:

http://www.kvraudio.com/focus/macworld- ... orts-18093

"...and moving to the Mac
Going the other OS direction, Cakewalk was showing the latest version of Z3TA+ 2 ($99) in the Roland booth. It's one of my favorite softsynths on the Receptor. It has been around for years as a Windows-only product. They are promising a Mac version some time soon. Better late than never..."

Fingers crossed....

[inaheartbeat]

I own a Virus TI2 as well as Z3Ta 2.1 and a lot of other soft synths and hardware. So....for what it is worth here is my perspective.

First of all, it should be obvious that for a large range of sounds Z3Ta 2 and a Virus can overlap and the average person is not going to tell the difference. That is not a knock on either one just a function of how patches are constructed using the available features of each one. Also, either one in the hands of someone that is clueless will sound pretty uninspiring. OK...so much for the obvious.

The Virus currently only has three oscillators although the next OS version is supposed to add two more. Z3Ta 2 has 6 and that can be helpful for some patches. At some level this can be a bit of overkill unless you plan on creating patches that don't sit in a mix with anything at all. Z3Ta 2 has a broad range of waveforms and warping options along with easy ability to import your own waves into the oscillators. This is nice and helpful as well as flexible. The Virus has wavetables but they are not as flexible.

The biggest thing that distinguishes the sounds is modulations to me. The Virus has one killer option that Z3Ta 2 does not have. You can send the arp output to the modulation matrix but not have it affect any notes. So....create a really cool arp in the Virus VST and then send arp>matrix and then use that mod source as a destination for filters for example. This is a big win for me. With that you create sounds that you definitely cannot get using just Z3Ta 2.

I like the mod routing in Z3Ta 2 but I wish I had more target options. I know this seems silly when you first look at the number of targets to choose from but after a while you start looking to modulate things that are not on that list like filter 1 and filter 2 balance or oscillator wavetable index or the various per oscillator warping functions that Z3Ta 2 provides. Omnisphere is still my favorite soft synth of the ones I own for modulation mapping and routing. And yes, I know I can modulate stuff in my DAW for Z3Ta 2...

The effects in the Virus TI2 are a lot better than in Z3Ta 2 but that really does not matter since I have tons of software effects I can glue onto the back end of a Z3Ta 2 patch. The Virus VST can only be used as a single instance and that, to me, is a pain in the butt. Z3Ta 2 is a pretty CPU friendly beast so you can glue in plenty of instances of it without it eating your CPU. Also, Z3Ta 2 can be used as a filter plugin which I think is a great feature.

As far as Z3Ta 2 being "96% of a Virus" I don't know what to say. Maybe I should run two weeks of experiments to see if it is really 97.253% of a Virus. I mean....seriously....that is just breathtaking. What would that even mean?

If I wanted to crank out dance music easily under time pressure I wouldn't use either my Virus or Z3Ta 2. I would use Nexus 2. I am pretty sure with the libraries I have I could come up with something in less than an hour

[danbroad]

Having owned four TI Viruses [yep, count 'em, four] as well as z3ta+1/z3ta+2, I think the one thing a Virus is unquestionably better at is providing the owner with a wonderful, warm-inside, ownership experience. That's down to the build quality, the aftersales support, the sonic palette, the knobs and layout, and the tight studio integration.

As for the sound, well, it's a very personal matter and no clear winner exists. There's an individual sound character to the Virus that's instantly recognisable, and those filters are genuinely the sound of the noughties, but... it's just avery well written DSP synth, and so is z3ta+.

Whether the sonic character or the physical and ownership experiences are worth the premium is up to the user alone. I like the Virus, but have no illusions that it sounds better or worse than any softie.

[Uncle E]

I guess that's then is the crux of the story. It's purely personal (didn't really like DIVA's sound tbh... demo'd it during that "free-use" period in Dec and was underwhelmed).

Got it, I apologize for making the discussion too subjective.

The way to look at this objectively is to put the Virus and Z3ta+ 2 side-by-side and distinguish if they sound the same (opposed to as good, better, or worse). In such a test, Z3ta+ 2 does not sound the same.

[zvenx]

Last night this thread 'inspired' me to upgrade z3ta (which quite frankly I have owned over two years and dont' think I have used once) to z3ta 2 for $49 bucks.. figured with Big Tone as one of the preset developers on it, I must find useful stuff.

All I can say is once again taste is Verrryyyy personal... if I found two sounds on it that I like I have found a lot (granted I haven't gone thru all 1,000 sounds), but it sounds very clinical and digital to me.....I think this will go like my z3ta original and never be used once..

The Virus was the last hardware synth I had wanted to own, and did so for years until omnisphere and zebra 2 imho sounded if not better, as good...

so my two cents is z3ta is nothing at all like the sound quality of the virus.. although it may be that even if I got a virus now I wouldn't use it much..such to me is the quality of some software synths like omnisphere, zebra 2, diva, ace, imposcar 2, and to an extent nexus 2.......

my two cents

rsp

[Uncle E]

If I wanted to crank out dance music easily under time pressure I wouldn't use either my Virus or Z3Ta 2. I would use Nexus 2. I am pretty sure with the libraries I have I could come up with something in less than an hour

heh, touche, that's indeed the winner.

[danbroad]

Quality and character are two different things. Running at decent sample rates, z3ta is undoubtedly a quality synth.

[aquar]

Well, I wouldn't go that far... production has a lot to do with it as well. Surely there would be people who can make a Virus sound terrible, and other people who can make Synth1 sound magical

I contend that someone who's never before made music could sit down with a Virus and produce something that sounds as good as most commercially released dance music currently being made. I personally do not believe there are too many native softsynths outside of Omnisphere and DIVA that can provide this kind of experience. Also, I personally have not been able to make Z3ta+ 2 sound as good as the Virus TI2 (although I've gotten DIVA to sound much, much better ).

I guess that's then is the crux of the story. It's purely personal (didn't really like DIVA's sound tbh... demo'd it during that "free-use" period in Dec and was underwhelmed). Not a bad synth, but I can't see what the hype is about there...

@OP ...and there we go, the hype around every synth/effect/DAW is a congregation of positive opinions rolled together, which seems overwhelmingly, disproportionally positive when looking at it from the "outside". This general convergence of collective positive opinion usually doesn't mean squat though I find (heaps of people dribble over DIVA, I don't get it... I guess I like a more digital, clinical tone in a synth, Tone2 Gladiator for instance, therefore I guess my opinion will always be different to that of the analogVST seekers [but funnily enough, it usually isn't]).

A total newbie probably could sit down and produce a fairly decent dance track with the Virus assuming they have a few good ideas and listen to current trends.
So yeah in the right hands the Virus really is a hit machine because it was built for the kill.
The effects are already designed for a club type of sound and that helps a lot.
The same cant be said of a lot of softsynths that come drenched with in your face presets that sound like shit in a club.

I think the Virus is the sum total of top quality engineering and designers who aren't f**king around or drip feeding their customers that's for sure! perhaps thats why the Virus is and will probably remain a highly sought after instrument for a long time to come. A bonus situation ...it retains it re-sale value very well indeed.
As others have said a musical instrument shouldn't be an investment project but it helps if times get hard.

[inaheartbeat]

I really have to echo another posters response about the connection you can feel to the Virus as a creative instrument. The design and layout of it as well as the feel of the keybed is just spectacular. I remember when I got mine of course I had to set it up immediately. I figured I would noodle a bit and then get stopped and have to check out the manual. Didn't happen. The logic in the layout is just right there for you. You really get a very good creative flow going with that keyboard. Yes, in a certain sense it is a very large dongle for the software but it sure is a fantastic dongle. I get absolutely none of that integration with Z3Ta 2 and it means a lot to me. The integration with a VST in my DAW is a great feature also although I think they could improve the functionality of the VST a lot more. It needs to be instantiated more than once. It needs to allow more tracks per instance. It needs to not require you to be in sequencer mode if you use it. The graphics suck lol.

I don't use Z3Ta 2 as my "go to" soft synth. Like another poster I use Omnisphere. It is far more inspiring to me than Z3Ta and the organization of it is a work of art as far as I am concerned. It also fills more of a hole because it can use samples as elements in a patch which is something that you most definitely cannot do in a Virus. Ok, I cannot import my own samples into it but given the vast library (and the Moog expansion library I own) that really has not been an issue. I also have Alchemy which is the ultimate sample mangler. As I said before, the modulation matrix in Omnisphere is the best I have used. It is also a blast to control with Omni TR which is free for your iPad 2.

Z3ta 2 is very good because it is lightweight. Sometimes you don't need to use an elephant gun to solve a problem and you can't have every track suck the life out of your CPU.

[osiris]

And this is what I've been saying so long. The ability to send the arp to wherever. That's what I loved about Wusikstation. Not only did you have envelopes to put wherever, but you could have one arp pattern playing on Osc 1 & 2 and another pattern on 3 & 4. Or you could leave the first couple alone for a lovely pad sound and do an arp on osc. 3,4 & 5.
Z3ta's nearly perfect, but if they could do this, I think my head would explode.
The sonic possibilities....