I am probably overstating the similarities, and I certainly didn't mean to offend any classical music lovers. Obviously classical music is much more complex than EDM.
I do believe, however, that if Bach and Mozart were alive today, they would be composing music electronically, if for no other reason than the tools are there to hear an entire composition without having to hire any musicians.
The suggestion for ripping a motif from classical music still stands, however. I've also heard a lot of pop or rock music that ripped chord progressions from songs such as Pachelbel's Canon.
Frustration during melody building/creating
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- KVRAF
- 1577 posts since 20 May, 2002 from Cambridge, UK
I would just say this, writing music is an art not a science. It's not something that you can create from formulas or rulesbooks or theory. Theory is just there to describe the conventions of the past, not lay down a set of rules which music must conform to.
THIS IS MY MUSIC: https://spti.fi/rZyjX7i 
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- KVRAF
- 1596 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina
MHO:
Structurally, classical music is certainly infinitely less repetitive than EDM. However, the use of repetitive motifs in classical music is something that I think can be applied to EDM (and all music) - especially the use of applying the same rhythm to different sounds and melodies.
One of the most famous examples is Beethoven's 5th - almost the entirety of the opening theme is the same four note rhythm repeated.
Another trick is to quicken the occurrence of related chordal structure (or melody) to build tension - in other words, if something occurs every two bars, you change it up to every bar before approaching a climax/change. Again, Beethoven's 5th is a great example - it's 4 measures (of 2/4 time) in C-minor, then 4 in G. Then it switches to one measure each - a simple, repetitive chord structure made exiting because of it's headlong rush (he did as much in his first sonata, which brilliantly doubles the speed of essentially the same progression, twice).
(That said, I can never apply these ideas to my productions - I almost always start out with something I like, then grow bored and toss it without knowing how to take it a step further. I'm much better at critiquing other peoples work than applying the same lessons to my own
)
Good luck!
Structurally, classical music is certainly infinitely less repetitive than EDM. However, the use of repetitive motifs in classical music is something that I think can be applied to EDM (and all music) - especially the use of applying the same rhythm to different sounds and melodies.
One of the most famous examples is Beethoven's 5th - almost the entirety of the opening theme is the same four note rhythm repeated.
Another trick is to quicken the occurrence of related chordal structure (or melody) to build tension - in other words, if something occurs every two bars, you change it up to every bar before approaching a climax/change. Again, Beethoven's 5th is a great example - it's 4 measures (of 2/4 time) in C-minor, then 4 in G. Then it switches to one measure each - a simple, repetitive chord structure made exiting because of it's headlong rush (he did as much in his first sonata, which brilliantly doubles the speed of essentially the same progression, twice).
(That said, I can never apply these ideas to my productions - I almost always start out with something I like, then grow bored and toss it without knowing how to take it a step further. I'm much better at critiquing other peoples work than applying the same lessons to my own
)Good luck!
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
what this assertion leaves out is that you're talking about serious and elaborate development of a motif, as if to make a comparison with music that just isn't doing that, and reducing that treatment of the motif to 'repetition'.JoeCat wrote: the use of repetitive motifs in classical music is something that I think can be applied to EDM (and all music) - especially the use of applying the same rhythm to different sounds and melodies.
One of the most famous examples is Beethoven's 5th - almost the entirety of the opening theme is the same four note rhythm repeated.
ie., the word to use is 'reiteration' in the first place. It isn't literal repetition, it gets sped up, it gets to scan differently, etc.
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- KVRAF
- 1596 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina
My greater error was using the redundant term "repetitive motif".jancivil wrote:what this assertion leaves out is that you're talking about serious and elaborate development of a motif, as if to make a comparison with music that just isn't doing that, and reducing that treatment of the motif to 'repetition'.JoeCat wrote: the use of repetitive motifs in classical music is something that I think can be applied to EDM (and all music) - especially the use of applying the same rhythm to different sounds and melodies.
One of the most famous examples is Beethoven's 5th - almost the entirety of the opening theme is the same four note rhythm repeated.
ie., the word to use is 'reiteration' in the first place. It isn't literal repetition, it gets sped up, it gets to scan differently, etc.
I understand "reiteration" to be the same as "repetition", but now I'm just splitting syntactical hairs...I'd argue that reiteration of an element, elaborated upon, is the definition of a motif in musical form.
I'd agree the development of any idea in classical music is typically more elaborate (and serious?) than in pop, EDM, etc., IMHO the same principles apply - periodic structures in music, elaborated upon, provide a hook while maintaining interest. And some of the best EDM producers often utilize subtle and similar tactics, even if they are not as consciously aware as a more serious composer would need be to produce a symphonic work, etc.
BTW @jancivil - I'm a great admirer of your work. Zappa would have been a fan. You don't play by these rules at all.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
thx
in the concrete, the motif in Beethoven's fifth, the first iteration, the establishment of it, the motif begins on the downbeat. soon enough the last note of the motif is on the downbeat, and it's now four times faster. So, as a motif, which is rhythmic, it's a reiteration rather than a repetition.
in the concrete, the motif in Beethoven's fifth, the first iteration, the establishment of it, the motif begins on the downbeat. soon enough the last note of the motif is on the downbeat, and it's now four times faster. So, as a motif, which is rhythmic, it's a reiteration rather than a repetition.
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- KVRist
- 433 posts since 26 Sep, 2004
Try using step sequencing in your DAW.
Play out a quick melody you think sounds good on your keyboard (don't record this, just play a riff)... Listen to is carefully, and then step sequence it in. That's what I've been doing lately, and it seems get closer to what I hear in my head.
Monib
Play out a quick melody you think sounds good on your keyboard (don't record this, just play a riff)... Listen to is carefully, and then step sequence it in. That's what I've been doing lately, and it seems get closer to what I hear in my head.
Monib