KVR Audio

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:52 am

I wonder why didn't anybody mention yet the Roland V Piano (specially the V Piano Grand). If hardware and rental is an option, and the use of a REAL Grand is out of question, my option would be the Roland V Piano Grand. For a plug-in, I would too advise to take a look at 4-Front True Pianos.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:11 am

Of course, college of naysay has to have their say. There is really, absolutely nothing fake left in Pianoteq's sound in version 4. Anything else is pure hatetalk or defying to admit superiority, or living in the past still being deluded by samples.

For a solo album? Definitely Pianoteq, because no sample library can do all the intricate things pianos can do. But Pianoteq can. There is nothing to joke about that decision. TruePianos is nowhere near Pianoteq's model.

qube123 · Post by **qube123** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:23 am

Will try PT again this eve.

My favourite digital piano is the Korg SV-1 think it sounds amazing and very lovely to play.

Most of the difference between hardware keys and plugs is the post-processing on the sound, if you play a plug on it's own it'll often sound a bit raw and cold.

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:35 am

for what it's worth, the piano presets in Harmor are progressing:
http://www.image-line.com/support/FLHel ... lody_2.mp3

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:59 am

Pianoteq is the best!
I have the demo version 3.5 installed for a pretty long time and been comparing it to a number of different pianos including True Pianos.

I can't believe someone would disagree that Pianoteq is truly remarkable to say the least!

People in those situations are either testing an early version (2.5 for example) or are simply "gelous" of Pianoteq and didn't give it chance.

It feels great and can sound beautiful.
note: A big difference in the sound character is achieved by messing around in the microphone section.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:02 am

Velocity curve is also something to look at - a lot of it depends on your playing...

izonin · Post by **izonin** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:58 am

musicworld wrote:With the intent on recording a solo piano album what VST plugin would be best recommended ? I've sampled through EWQL Pianos, Galaxy 2, Steinway Vintage D and Ivory 2.

Synthogy and SampleTekk have nice libraries. Which one you'll choose depends on the style of your record.

musicworld · Post by **musicworld** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:09 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Personally I'm not in to "Modelled Pianos" i believe third generation "Sampled Pianos" commit to a more realistic sound overall, that being said, Galaxy 2, Galaxy Steinway Vintage D and Garritans Authorized Steinway are among the best on the market for todays third generation Sampled Pianos. I think I've made my choice ?

Thanks.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Perhaps a realistic isolated played note. But not a realistic chord, not a realistic pedalling behavior, and definitely not realistic sympathetic resonance behavior in any way.

FrankT · Post by **FrankT** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:04 pm

afreshcupofjoe wrote:
Shy wrote:No, I'm not kidding. I don't know what it uses, but it sounds much better than Ivory at anything (and sounds more "authentic"). If you listen to Pianoteq and still think it can be suitable for a solo album, what can I say? "Are you joking" is one thing I could say.
I don't think there is any substitute for a real piano, personally. But I don't see how it's possible that a 40mb 3 layer sample set sounds "more authentic" than something like Ivory or Pianoteq. I don't care how nice of a keyboard you package that sample set in, it's still a just a 40mb sample set with only 3 velocity layers. The youtube videos don't help your case much. They sound like a digital stage piano to me.

What's more likely, that Yamaha has some sort of magical sampling technology that allows them to cram an unprecedented amount of realism into a 40mb 3 layer sample set, or that you are deluding yourself into thinking the CP300 sounds more realistic because it has a fantastic keyboard that feels and responds like a real piano (with almost zero latency)? My bet is on the latter.

EDIT:

And to the OP, if you want my vote on the most authentic sounding sample set for solo work, definitely give these a look:
http://www.imperfectsamples.com/

For physical modeling I prefer Pianoteq over Truepianos, but personally I would use a sample set for best authenticity if I couldn't record a real piano. As with everything, there are trade-offs, and physical modeled pianos are a lot better for capturing certain nuances of a performance. They also "feel" better than playing a sample set, but in the end I just don't think physical modelling is quite there yet. There is something still too dead and sterile about physically modeled pianos, even though they sound fairly realistic.

-My 2 cents.

I second the recommendation for imperfectsamples. Very expressive instruments. And I mean instrument !
Otherwise happy user of TP!
But: what is actually the style of music of this solo album ??

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:13 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Burillo wrote:I second Pianoteq... finally, string resonance done right! you can silently press and hold a note, then hit an octave-lower note (and quickly release it) and hear how your original note resonates. Try that with sampled instruments.

Yep, that doesn't happen with sampled pianos. And no sampled piano has repedalling done correctly, no sampled piano has the harmonic pedal (which is an amazing effect in its own right!), no sampled piano has a correct response when hitting an already vibrating string (phase cancellations occur, this thing is pretty much impossible to achieve with samples), etc...

Nothing plays like Pianoteq. Bar none.

Actually, there are a couple of sampled pianos that have gotten close on the resonance. Not AS good, but they at least did it somewhat right. Alicia's Keys and the Garritan Steinway both do what other libraries have just left off.

That being said, even without trying Pianoteq 4 yet(I plan to soon), Pianoteq has done the resonance correctly for a long time.

Now, Pianoteq is designed to be used with a proper weighted controller. Playing it on a synth-action controller is going to deter the sound and probably give the player the wrong impression about it. But if you have a good weighted controller, I have yet to see something that PLAYS better than Pianoteq. And the fact that it sounds pretty darn good sure helps.

Looking forward to trying version 4 though.

Brent

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:23 pm

musicworld wrote:Thanks for the feedback everyone. Personally I'm not in to "Modelled Pianos" i believe third generation "Sampled Pianos" commit to a more realistic sound overall, that being said, Galaxy 2, Galaxy Steinway Vintage D and Garritans Authorized Steinway are among the best on the market for todays third generation Sampled Pianos. I think I've made my choice ?

Thanks.

I respect an honest opinion, but as a sound designer specializing in hybrid physical modeling I beg to disagree!

It seems that you have a sort of established opinion of "modelled" instruments that might be harmful in your decision making.

I just invite you to reconsider your opinion about certain things, especially if you are more likely to reject "modelled" stuff .. just as people tend to reject SE or SM plugins thinking that they are bad.

As a random fact; wave samples are "modeled" approximations of the real thing that most of the times are of lower quality that physical modelling for example.. and many more other factors some as EvilDragon mentioned as well...

Physical modeling done right is :insert snake oil term here:

RonDP · Post by **RonDP** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:32 pm

Pianoteq has held my love for quite some time. It can create the heart you have.

I've recorded sampled piano ballad midi, which sounded great. Then switched to Pianoteq and heard what I really felt.

Also having fun with EZkeys for midi chord enhancement.

Ron

kelvyn · Post by **kelvyn** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:49 pm

Imperfect Samples have really great sounding pianos

musicworld · Post by **musicworld** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:18 pm

afreshcupofjoe
And to the OP, if you want my vote on the most authentic sounding sample set for solo work, definitely give these a look:
http://www.imperfectsamples.com/

Thanks! for that link, I must say these are the most authentic pianos samples I've ever heard. Apart from the Fazioli and the Hohner Baby Grand, it was the Steinway Concert Grand samples that amazed me.

How did they get the pianos to have such a realistic response when their Sampled not Modelled ?

Best Plugin For Solo Piano Works ???