Give me some advice on making a similar melody

[jontah]

that melody seemed kind of random but the basic structure (in blocks of 2 beats each, with instant changes between them in parantheses) is: rise (drop) rise (drop) rise () fall () cheesy-melodic-finish -::- -::- -::-

so the first half of the melody is some quick stuff that usually rises upward, but finishes with a fall, and the second half is a much simpler and slower thing providing conclusion and stability. another very prominent element in this melody is - as you'll notice - that, frequently, the last 16th of a beat is extended into the next beat. this gives a little syncopation and liveliness, as opposed to the strict rigidity of melody always conforming to beat. it can be done to a much greater and more dynamic extent than in this song. experiment! syncopation and juxtaposition of rhythm is important in dance music.

I can't be arsed to examine it more thoroughly now (as for what exact notes are present and how they relate to the chord sequence) but thinking in terms of blocks (subdivision) helps you build melodic structure in a more laborious fashion, which seems to be the preferable method in this case as melody obviously doesn't come naturally to you.

after a while you'll start noticing other meaningful things than just what direction the melody is going, such as what precise row of intervals is present and how it affects the mood and impact of the music.

Great help right here!

Now I wonder, how do I actually come up with a rhythm like this and how do you actually think in terms of blocks (subdivisions)? (with subdivisions/blocks you actually mean bars or several bars together, right? my english isn't the best, therefore I ask, I probably know this in swedish).

I'm still looking for some good way to practice getting better at rhythms, do you guys have ANY suggestion on ANY book or so that I can buy OR exercise that is good or exists online or so? I've bought endless of rhythm tutorials from several piano-lesson sites,but this doesn't seem to help that much, I mean, they are all so simple..

Thanks alot man!

[jontah]

I think what I'm after is "polyryhthms", to come up with a rhythm and play it alongside of any other instrument..

I came across this one:

But I'm pretty confused about his explanations and how to apply it on the piano, is there any other good books or so that are more modern and easy-explained instead? Not sure this is the thing I'm looking for though.. struggling alot with this at the moment and really want to evolve it into something good and become better at it by practicing, but the first step is to have the tools of doing so and really get down to it!

[qa2pir]

polyrhythm might be a little too advanced of an analytical concept for this type of music but the core idea still applies, of course. one steady rhythm encompassing all instruments will get boring quickly unless you have some really clever self-referential stuff going on with regards to repetition and build - or a constantly changing and harmonically rich structure uncommon in EDM.

you don't need to start playing piano if you're not really keen on it. melody sequencing is different from live playing, with other benefits and downsides, and it is a legitimate context for the development of ones musicality.

personally I rely a lot on looping when I'm not simply translating what I hear in my head to the piano roll. while looping a beat you get an increased feel for it, and for how additional elements, such as melodies could complement it. this is a lot like improvising on a traditional instrument actually, in that you don't have the pressure to create or replicate something presentable but are instead just exploring and trying things out, though of course the goal is to end up with a good tune. I've found this to be a very satisfying method myself. just remember to keep a balance between intriguing complexity and comprehensible simplicity. in the example you posted, this is done mainly by contrasting the quick beginning and the slower conclusion, but it can also be done by other more involving and personal means. practice like this and you should see results!

about subdivision: it's not a strict discipline, rather a nifty tool. divide however you like - bars, 2bars, half bars, 4bars, whatevers suits the pace of what you're trying to achieve. then you could switch between two different melodic fragments: ABAB, or 3, for example: ABCB or ABAC. the variation can consist of many different aspects: you could keep the rhythm but alternate notes, or just toss the rhythm around a bit while keeping the notes, or change both, or even create drastically different yet somehow thematically unified bits that work well together despite disparities. again, there are many possibilities and quite frankly I find it hard to verbalize the best ones I've found. it's personal - no wait f**king TRANSCENDENTAL - and that's what's fun about it!

[jontah]

polyrhythm might be a little too advanced of an analytical concept for this type of music but the core idea still applies, of course. one steady rhythm encompassing all instruments will get boring quickly unless you have some really clever self-referential stuff going on with regards to repetition and build - or a constantly changing and harmonically rich structure uncommon in EDM.

you don't need to start playing piano if you're not really keen on it. melody sequencing is different from live playing, with other benefits and downsides, and it is a legitimate context for the development of ones musicality.

personally I rely a lot on looping when I'm not simply translating what I hear in my head to the piano roll. while looping a beat you get an increased feel for it, and for how additional elements, such as melodies could complement it. this is a lot like improvising on a traditional instrument actually, in that you don't have the pressure to create or replicate something presentable but are instead just exploring and trying things out, though of course the goal is to end up with a good tune. I've found this to be a very satisfying method myself. just remember to keep a balance between intriguing complexity and comprehensible simplicity. in the example you posted, this is done mainly by contrasting the quick beginning and the slower conclusion, but it can also be done by other more involving and personal means. practice like this and you should see results!

about subdivision: it's not a strict discipline, rather a nifty tool. divide however you like - bars, 2bars, half bars, 4bars, whatevers suits the pace of what you're trying to achieve. then you could switch between two different melodic fragments: ABAB, or 3, for example: ABCB or ABAC. the variation can consist of many different aspects: you could keep the rhythm but alternate notes, or just toss the rhythm around a bit while keeping the notes, or change both, or even create drastically different yet somehow thematically unified bits that work well together despite disparities. again, there are many possibilities and quite frankly I find it hard to verbalize the best ones I've found. it's personal - no wait f**king TRANSCENDENTAL - and that's what's fun about it!

If I understand you correct, you're saying I don't need to play it live? it's better to make a loop and just pencil it in on the pianoroll? you don't even play it on the midi-keyboard?

So, basically you do a melody for each bar (or 2 bars if you'd want that instead), and then just try to put it in in different orders? if so is the case, does the melody have to "come home" or point "home" on the last note of each bar?

How do you come up with the rhythm then? I didn't quite get that.

Thanks.

[qa2pir]

If I understand you correct, you're saying I don't need to play it live? it's better to make a loop and just pencil it in on the pianoroll? you don't even play it on the midi-keyboard?

So, basically you do a melody for each bar (or 2 bars if you'd want that instead), and then just try to put it in in different orders? if so is the case, does the melody have to "come home" or point "home" on the last note of each bar?

How do you come up with the rhythm then? I didn't quite get that.

Thanks.

no hard rules! just tips and pointers.

now get your hands dirty

[jontah]

If I understand you correct, you're saying I don't need to play it live? it's better to make a loop and just pencil it in on the pianoroll? you don't even play it on the midi-keyboard?

So, basically you do a melody for each bar (or 2 bars if you'd want that instead), and then just try to put it in in different orders? if so is the case, does the melody have to "come home" or point "home" on the last note of each bar?

How do you come up with the rhythm then? I didn't quite get that.

Thanks.

no hard rules! just tips and pointers.

now get your hands dirty

well tbh, good points, but I still cannot get a feel for a melody when just using the pencil and some theory inside of Logic's pianoroll. I gotta play it in some way..

Also, I'm still struggling with rhythm :/ I understand that by just moving the notes around in the pianoroll helps though.. trust me, I've tried it alot..

[jontah]

anyways, recommended book or so would be very appreciated!

I can play the piano pretty immediate (I'm not a total rookie and I know about the scales, how to do voicings, normal chords and inversion chords).

[Nanakai]

edit: nope

I couldn't find this in the German Amazon store:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alfreds-Teach-Y ... 538&sr=8-1

Talking about music is like dancing about architecture, as the old saying goes. Don't expect to understand music by reading words. You must express music. Even a little piano practice will go a long way for you.

[Nystul]

Triplets. The reason the melody is confusing you is because of triplets.

There aren't any triplets in that melody. Just straight sixteenth notes. Three sixteenth notes followed by a long note which ties over the second beat creates *syncopation*. Now you have unexpected strength to the pulse of the melody where that long note starts, which is not on the second beat but rather before it. If the next note is on the "and of two" (halfway between count 2 and count 3) now you have 3 accents which are each separated by the length of a dotted eighth note (in other words, the length of three sixteenth notes). And you have the length of an eighth note left until the strong beat at count 3. There is a latin influence to this sort of idea. It is an important sort of idea for a lot of popular music.

[Nanakai]

I very clearly hear triplets, and when I reproduce this melody, I am playing triplets. Maybe you could show me what you mean on some staff paper or a MIDI clip. If I am in error, it must be very deeply ingrained after years of playing guitar and the piano. I will need to correct that.

[Nystul]

I very clearly hear triplets, and when I reproduce this melody, I am playing triplets. Maybe you could show me what you mean on some staff paper or a MIDI clip. If I am in error, it must be very deeply ingrained after years of playing guitar and the piano. I will need to correct that.

Here, I tried to sketch out one of the rhythm patterns as I hear it. It sounds flat without accents or melodic high notes to bring out the groove, but it should at least show the rhythm I was talking about.
http://musescore.com/user/30790/scores/48421

[jancivil]

it's simple: "triplet" means three to a durational value, here quarter note. In that case there are four to the quarter note value. they just happen to be grouped as three before the next note hits. If it was a triplet, that fourth hit will be on the downbeat. It is not. It occurs on the second sixteenth of the next quarter note beat.

There are no triplets in that track.

[Nanakai]

I very clearly hear triplets, and when I reproduce this melody, I am playing triplets. Maybe you could show me what you mean on some staff paper or a MIDI clip. If I am in error, it must be very deeply ingrained after years of playing guitar and the piano. I will need to correct that.

Here, I tried to sketch out one of the rhythm patterns as I hear it. It sounds flat without accents or melodic high notes to bring out the groove, but it should at least show the rhythm I was talking about.
http://musescore.com/user/30790/scores/48421

I really appreciate you doing that. I hear my error now. Guess I know what I'm practicing this weekend...