Just for fun mastering challenge anyone?

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Like manducator said, It seems to me also a bit meh not being able to use commercial plug-ins and with all being non-inferior as iriondaronin says then surely a person whom has some commercial plug-ins which they wish to use against people choosing only freeware should not be any problems. I fail to see why people would not be able to learn anything with both used

On the contary it would surely help those whom are looking into commercial plug-ins for thier own needs get an idea of what they are capable of = Good for developers, Surely that is a good thing. Plus those whom are using commercial plug-ins that have not had chance to listen to or use the best crop of freeware available will have a chance to and then can check it out for themselves = Good for developers?

Just my 2 pence FWIW, All the best to all as always

Dean

[Aiynzahev]

Hi all.

About the track we choose, maybe we can have a few candidates and vote.

First I think we need to establish who is in and a few rules.

I think we should just deal with the stereo wave file. It is easier than downloading multiple stems. Some of us also don't have great internet connections. Plus ME's often get just the stereo file.

Secondly about effects. I think they should be free because:

1) It will help everyone learn from each other since we can all access the same tools

2) Some free effects are really very good, I've heard Vlad Limiter6 can come close to FF Pro-L

3) It just makes the competition much more accessible, anyone can join and no one can get away with blaming their tools or lack thereof.

4) If the track submitted is from someone who wants his/her track mastered they can end up choosing the winner and if they want they can donate $10 or whatever. The point is that they will specify what kind of mastering job they want, for now just using some basic terms like "clear & Loud" "Transparent" "dynamic" "Very loud" "Uber loud" "Phat" "Very Phat" "Jabba the Hutt" etc

Beyond what they have requested, it might be an idea to have a separate challenge in place, the customer asks for transparent? Then we will also make a loud version as the extra challenge, they want it smashed? Then we will also make a transparent version as the challenge. The customer may be surprised and like the second one more.

It will be good to get the word out a little too, to the point of finding artists that have not a clue about VST's etc who want their demo to sound better.

However, you must acknowledge that this work is done as charity for free, you have no claims of copyright or anything else on the final track. The content belongs to the submitter. They can request us to remove our copies of the track.

What do you guys all think?

[bezusheist]

...1) It will help everyone learn from each other since we can all access the same tools...

so the free plug-ins used have to be available as VST and AU...?

i mean...to keep it fair and all...

kind of kidding but kind of serious...

[Aiynzahev]

...1) It will help everyone learn from each other since we can all access the same tools...

so the free plug-ins used have to be available as VST and AU...?

i mean...to keep it fair and all...

kind of kidding but kind of serious...

Yes I know what you mean. Previous poster also had some good points about using commercial plug-ins.

Still, I feel that if we use commercial plug-ins the game will really become about particular plug-ins vs skill. Inevitably we will say "Well Elephant is just much better than x,y,z anyway..."

So I will do some looking around for plug-ins that have AU and see how feasible it will all be.

My main concerns are bootsie, Voxengo and Vlad as we can get a lot of mileage from these.

Sami

[IrionDaRonin]

Like manducator said, It seems to me also a bit meh not being able to use commercial plug-ins and with all being non-inferior as iriondaronin says then surely a person whom has some commercial plug-ins which they wish to use against people choosing only freeware should not be any problems. I fail to see why people would not be able to learn anything with both used

On the contary it would surely help those whom are looking into commercial plug-ins for thier own needs get an idea of what they are capable of = Good for developers, Surely that is a good thing. Plus those whom are using commercial plug-ins that have not had chance to listen to or use the best crop of freeware available will have a chance to and then can check it out for themselves = Good for developers?

Just my 2 pence FWIW, All the best to all as always

Dean

Well, i just gave my personal opinion. The usage only of freebies would be better, i think. However, we could make a vote to use both kind of plugins, this is a democracy. Comercial and freebies.
Feel free to post your results with your gear, tutorials, no problem in that, i think. However, the idea was from Aiyn, he will say the last word of this.

What i don't want now is all people coming and using only commercial plugins all over the place, so people with less money will have an impossibility to make or recreate the same thing without them, how to learn compression or EQ, or whatever.
Believe me, to me, and to many others, compression is a tricky bitch yet, difficult to understand in the first steps, and if you use a commercial compressor, and anyone who want to learn how to recreate that with a freebie, that person will be completelly lost.
However, a person who has commercial mastering tools, it suposes that knows how to master properly. The better would be to have these semi pros/pros skilled in mastering, coming here and showing what can you do with free stuff only. That would be the paradise.

We all already know that commerical plugins are powerful, and many other good specifications. But spite people pay for them, there are many tutorials over the net, and if you have any question, you always can go to the developer website to ask for it. Doubts, for tutorials, videos, sounds examples, etc.
Free plugin users can't do that in the most of cases, that's i was thinking to make it for free.

However, as i said, i don't see any problem if you contribute too with commercial stuff. But let's wait for Aiyn to read what he thinks about that.
I'm not very restrictive. But i prefer this for people and musicians who don't have too much money, or even with money but are not interested on buying commercial mastering tools.

It is something like: "Hey, take a look on the tutorial i made with this super famous Waves compressor, you don't have it, you can't do it the same way. It won't sound the same, so you are out."

And indeed, is good for developers, but free developers are developers too.
The commercial developers have many tutorials in their website, examples, sounds, manuals, and a big staff to show how to do it to the users.
Free developers with these advantages, not many. And mostly because they don't have too many money for promotions, marketing, or a big staff behind a forum or an e-mail.

Thanks for pointing out, in any case, and have a good day, Dean.

[chk071]

Yes I know what you mean. Previous poster also had some good points about using commercial plug-ins.

Still, I feel that if we use commercial plug-ins the game will really become about particular plug-ins vs skill. Inevitably we will say "Well Elephant is just much better than x,y,z anyway..."

Yeah, and it would be better for people trying to reproduce the steps as well (to use free plugins).

[No_Use]

Nice idea, I'll be in probably.
Thanks for the taking the initiative.

Just for reference and those who missed it, there was a similar thing going on some time ago, as part of Kim's excellent KVR mixing workshop.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=232205

[Aiynzahev]

Good, people can keep chiming in for a little while while we all mull it over.

One more thing I will say about learning free plug-ins:

It helps developers when people know what they want and why Elephant or Pro-L or Flux is good. Often people may download the demos, try the presets, not get what they want and conclude "I don't get what the hype is about"

If you know how to use something, you have experience and understanding trying to reach a goal, when you find a tool that lets you do it better and faster, then you are prepared to spend the money and keep the tool.

[Dr.Gunjah]

I thought it's not about winning the contest, but to enhance people's mixing/mastering skills. So why limit people to freeware plugins then?
Sounds like some kind of time waste to me for people that have lots of commercial stuff.

[olja]

This is a great idea. I won't participate but it will be interesting to hear what's done and learn from it.

A solution might be to include commercial plug-ins with fully functional 30-day free demo periods. That way all the fabfilter plugs can be used for example, which are great for this, because of their clear and pedagogic interfaces. Plus everyone who would like to recreate a certain mastering chain could download and try for themselves.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

...1) It will help everyone learn from each other since we can all access the same tools...

so the free plug-ins used have to be available as VST and AU...?

i mean...to keep it fair and all...

kind of kidding but kind of serious...

Yes I know what you mean. Previous poster also had some good points about using commercial plug-ins.

Still, I feel that if we use commercial plug-ins the game will really become about particular plug-ins vs skill. Inevitably we will say "Well Elephant is just much better than x,y,z anyway..."

So I will do some looking around for plug-ins that have AU and see how feasible it will all be.

My main concerns are bootsie, Voxengo and Vlad as we can get a lot of mileage from these.

Sami

I am a diplomatic dude and since it is your idea Sami then whatever is decided will be fine I'm sure. I do completely see the pitfalls of both, An even/level playing field is fair

All the best

Dean

Like manducator said, It seems to me also a bit meh not being able to use commercial plug-ins and with all being non-inferior as iriondaronin says then surely a person whom has some commercial plug-ins which they wish to use against people choosing only freeware should not be any problems. I fail to see why people would not be able to learn anything with both used

On the contary it would surely help those whom are looking into commercial plug-ins for thier own needs get an idea of what they are capable of = Good for developers, Surely that is a good thing. Plus those whom are using commercial plug-ins that have not had chance to listen to or use the best crop of freeware available will have a chance to and then can check it out for themselves = Good for developers?

Just my 2 pence FWIW, All the best to all as always

Dean

Well, i just gave my personal opinion. The usage only of freebies would be better, i think. However, we could make a vote to use both kind of plugins, this is a democracy. Comercial and freebies.
Feel free to post your results with your gear, tutorials, no problem in that, i think. However, the idea was from Aiyn, he will say the last word of this.

What i don't want now is all people coming and using only commercial plugins all over the place, so people with less money will have an impossibility to make or recreate the same thing without them, how to learn compression or EQ, or whatever.
Believe me, to me, and to many others, compression is a tricky bitch yet, difficult to understand in the first steps, and if you use a commercial compressor, and anyone who want to learn how to recreate that with a freebie, that person will be completelly lost.
However, a person who has commercial mastering tools, it suposes that knows how to master properly. The better would be to have these semi pros/pros skilled in mastering, coming here and showing what can you do with free stuff only. That would be the paradise.

We all already know that commerical plugins are powerful, and many other good specifications. But spite people pay for them, there are many tutorials over the net, and if you have any question, you always can go to the developer website to ask for it. Doubts, for tutorials, videos, sounds examples, etc.
Free plugin users can't do that in the most of cases, that's i was thinking to make it for free.

However, as i said, i don't see any problem if you contribute too with commercial stuff. But let's wait for Aiyn to read what he thinks about that.
I'm not very restrictive. But i prefer this for people and musicians who don't have too much money, or even with money but are not interested on buying commercial mastering tools.

It is something like: "Hey, take a look on the tutorial i made with this super famous Waves compressor, you don't have it, you can't do it the same way. It won't sound the same, so you are out."

And indeed, is good for developers, but free developers are developers too.
The commercial developers have many tutorials in their website, examples, sounds, manuals, and a big staff to show how to do it to the users.
Free developers with these advantages, not many. And mostly because they don't have too many money for promotions, marketing, or a big staff behind a forum or an e-mail.

Thanks for pointing out, in any case, and have a good day, Dean.

Like said above IrionDaRonin I can fully see the level playing field point of view and if it is to be done in a manner as seen in the OSC thing then that is cool I agree. Anyone would be able to share .FXP patches...etc. for just a few examples of why it in hindsight does make sense, Heck I might not be able to have the chance to join in due to work already on (not just audio related. Got two children I raise on my own which is far more difficult than any audio work I have ever done!!!). Either way I will always go with the majority vote or rules

Cheers and have a good day/take care and all the best to yourself also dude

A roundup of fair to use/fair game plug-in processor tools is the next step then I susspose aslong as all agree its freeware. I already make use of the three developers freewares which Sami pointed out, Have been for awhile so there is not a shred of doubt as to the quality being an issue. Heck Vlad was kind enough to thank me in the release info of Limiter6 even though it was all His great work for example...I just tested it alot and loved it, Between that and FabFilter Pro-L I do not use much else for peak-limiting, But Limiter6 is much more than just a peak-limiter it. Herbert's processors and effects I am no stranger too either topped off with Patrick's sublime GUIs then Aleksey's Voxengo free stuff, BoogieX for one example is still a big part of my plug-ins folder. I'd say I use as much freeware as I do commercial-ware as I think about it

Dean

[Aiynzahev]

Some good comments.

Well, we could put it to vote.

Again, freeware would mean we can all replicate the results. We would learn more about the kinds of tools, graphic eq, paragraphic, m/s etc without worrying about trial periods. A lot of us have already used our demo periods anyway.

Take Voxengo for example, did you know they have a linear-phase M/S Eq for free? How many have tried M/S Eq to solve various problems before? And so on.

Anyway, I will start compiling a freeware list when I have time, we can all add to it.

In the meantime everyone can still think about the pro's and cons of commercial, I think it complicates things but oh well.

If we had a professional mastering engineer chime in and tell us he used his Weiss compressor here and his algorithmix EQ on that, that would be great but we wouldn't really know how to learn from that.

By the way, the playing field is already lop-sided because some of us have much better monitoring environments than others, that's where most of it lies.

[manducator]

Ok, I do understand the reason why people want to use freeware plugins here, but I would have to invest too much time in changing to those plugins while my pc now is ready to master with the paid plugins I'm used to work with. So sorry, I'm not in.

[Lenticular]

If free vs non fx's are going to be restricted do it even further.
Only allowed to use an eq & limter. No comps, enhancers, tape etc..

[lotus2035]

You should stick to your rule of free plugs only if you want this to be an educational thing. It'll be a mess otherwise.