Blackhole vs B2 vs Shimmer

[core]

Speaking of trippy Reverbs, did this one last night using only Jaybass and B2:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/n ... s-meets-b2

That sounds really nice, Simon!

[Sampleconstruct]

Speaking of trippy Reverbs, did this one last night using only Jaybass and B2:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/n ... s-meets-b2

That sounds really nice, Simon!

Cheers, Ronnie

[cyphersuit]

so Simon, you would recommend B2, right?

[stikygum]

Also what if fabfilter releases ProV soon!? decisions, decisions.

Where did you hear that?

[Sampleconstruct]

so Simon, you would recommend B2, right?

Yes, absolutely - I have most of the other space plugs around. this one has a special/unique sound and is extremely tweakable, sound design heaven really. I could theoretically get rid of Aether now but of course I won't as it's involved on hundred of recent projects.

[Phase47]

Just demoing Shimmer vs. B2. I need to get back to B2 in a sec to compare, but Shimmer is pretty hard to put down once you pick it up. I'd love to hear about more comparisons between the two with people who have both.

[Echoes in the Attic]

so Simon, you would recommend B2, right?

I could theoretically get rid of Aether now but of course I won't as it's involved on hundred of recent projects.

Really? You find you can get close enough to the ER portion of Aether using the first engine of B2?

If you wanted to try to replicate Aether presets, I guess you'd use the two engines in parallel? I've never understood more natural reverb should have the ER feed into the late or if they should be parallel.

[Sampleconstruct]

so Simon, you would recommend B2, right?

I could theoretically get rid of Aether now but of course I won't as it's involved on hundred of recent projects.

Really? You find you can get close enough to the ER portion of Aether using the first engine of B2?

If you wanted to try to replicate Aether presets, I guess you'd use the two engines in parallel? I've never understood more natural reverb should have the ER feed into the late or if they should be parallel.

Yes I think it would be possible to replicate the Aether ERs in B2 but I wouldn't try as I have Aether and will go on using it if I want the specific sound of the Aether ERs.
For ERs I often use convolution with IRs anyway. Concerning the rules if ERs should, or should not be sent into the LRs I don't really care, I just dial in what sounds good to my years. VRoom is also great in that respect that you can determine the amount of ER into LR send.
In B2 you have the option to cascade the engines or let them play in parallel, so if you want some shorter dispersed reflections to be sent into a larger room just dial in the amount of cascadeness.

[valhallasound]

I've never understood more natural reverb should have the ER feed into the late or if they should be parallel.

It depends on the structure of the early reflections / early energy, on the nature of the send, and on one's own sonic preferences. To put things in Valhalla terms:

- ValhallaShimmer has a very simple architecture, where you can cascade as many instances of Shimmer as you want without undue coloration. No early reflections to speak of in this reverb - it's all tail. The more instances you cascade, the denser things get, and the slower the attack.

- ValhallaRoom has an Early (Energy) and Late Reverb section, where the Early energy is calculated in such a way that the total energy in the outputs is equal to the input energy. This allows for the early energy to be sent into the late reverb (via the Early Send control) without causing much coloration. Note that this doesn't work in the same way that ValhallaShimmer works - the "send" uses more than 2 channels internally to achieve the low coloration effects. Cascading multiple instances of ValhallaRoom can sound pretty bad to my ears.

- ValhallaÜberMod can create all sorts of reverb responses: early reflections, input diffusion, late reverb. You can run these in series or parallel as you see fit, and can use ÜberMod with other reverbs to create more complicated responses. I wrote up a pretty sizable tutorial about this at

https://valhalladsp.wordpress.com/2012/ ... laubermod/

As far as reverbs in the published literature, Jean-Marc Jot (who has written up a lot about FDN reverbs, and whose ideas are used in the IRCAM reverbs officially, and plenty of other reverbs unofficially) says that you should avoid running the typical "multitap" early reflections into a late reverb. However, plenty of reverbs DO run multitap early reflections into the input of a late reverb, including the Lexicon reverbs of the 480L and later vintage.

I tend to avoid running "multitap" discrete reflections into a late reverb, as I do hear coloration from running a multitap delay into a late reverb - but it really comes down to your personal tastes. If you like this sound, then go for it. Plenty of reverbs past and present have used this technique, and it is possible to roll your own series/parallel variations with the techniques I describe in the tutorial above.

Sean Costello

[4damind]

Sean, is there a chance that the late reverb can be muted to have only the early reverb?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Thanks Sean. I've had your VRoom for a while and just recently bought ubermod, which I'm noticing does a lot of reverbs without much cpu cost, which is nice. I haven't experimented muhc with mixing different reverbs for the ER and late since most of my reverbs (VRoom, Aether, Reaktor reverbs) have distinct early and late controls. But I had thought of experimenting with, for example the ER of Aether with ubermod for the tail and such things...

So "cascade" simply means routed in series in reverb speak then?

I dunno. Coming from a guitar background, reverb always had one knob!

[valhallasound]

Thanks Sean. I've had your VRoom for a while and just recently bought ubermod, which I'm noticing does a lot of reverbs without much cpu cost, which is nice. I haven't experimented muhc with mixing different reverbs for the ER and late since most of my reverbs (VRoom, Aether, Reaktor reverbs) have distinct early and late controls. But I had thought of experimenting with, for example the ER of Aether with ubermod for the tail and such things...

So "cascade" simply means routed in series in reverb speak then?

Yep. Cascade=series.

I dunno. Coming from a guitar background, reverb always had one knob!

Trust me. I am SO TEMPTED to try and create a reverb with 4-5 knobs. I worked with an AMS RMX-16 recently, and the limited control set (predelay, decay, low mult, high mult) made using the box as simple as can be. It would be difficult to sell an ultra-simple parameter reverb as a plugin, though, as the digital world has different expectations than the analog/hardware/pedal world, with regards to the number of parameters exposed.

Sean Costello

[valhallasound]

Sean, is there a chance that the late reverb can be muted to have only the early reverb?

With ValhallaRoom? Sure: just set DEPTH to 0%. This only passes the Early Energy through to the output.

Sean Costello

[xx JPRacer xx]

Also what if fabfilter releases ProV soon!? decisions, decisions.

Where did you hear that?

[cyphersuit]

it was asked a lot on their forums and one of the last official replies to that was, that this was on top of their wishlist of plugins to release.