Confused about 2/4 time
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- KVRist
- 441 posts since 30 Apr, 2007
The upbeats are upbeats for a reason. The elements which make beat one strong are still there, and the upbeat accents contrast with that. If you strip down a rock song or reggae and ask the crowd to clap along, I expect they will find beat one every time. Actually this used to really puzzle me as a kid when I went to concerts and wanted to clap on 2 and 4.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I think of reggae as down, up, down, up typically. 2/4.
There isn't anything wrong with labeling it 4/4 either. it can be both and it can be 2 feel here and because of this or the other phrase, it is 4 to the bar there.
When I did this Satie cover, one of the reasons I was into doing it was to do it reggae. I did a scratch track which was the entirety of the piano part and did a solo that was a keeper. I wanted to get an old partner involved on keyboards but he was moving and not set up. I asked him about his idea of what he would do and he said, 'you know me Civil, I would take it half-time 2/2 so the drummer has room to decorate your guitar solo'. I hear these Gnossiennes with the alternate bass/chord thing he does with them as down/up TWO STEP feel and this is why I thought reggae is a cool treatment of that. The music was barred in 4; it could be barred 8/4 if only because the motif is 8 beats long.
It's not typically played in tempo, so...
When I called MB to do the rhythm guitar, no need to talk about time signature, he has the exact feel which is why he got called. But as the drummer I played with the time. Mainly the half time thing which give a rock backbeat in 2/2 while the riddim gittar is doing the typical. As I entertain myself conducting when I listen to it, I do 2/4 for some, 4/4 for some, and there is one spot where it's 3 + 5 = 8. I can't be wrong about my own music, you know. The rest is somebody's opinion.
to demonstrate:
Down, up, Down, up. 1 & 2 & 1 & 2 &...
The following track, Gnoss 3, same deal.
There isn't anything wrong with labeling it 4/4 either. it can be both and it can be 2 feel here and because of this or the other phrase, it is 4 to the bar there.
When I did this Satie cover, one of the reasons I was into doing it was to do it reggae. I did a scratch track which was the entirety of the piano part and did a solo that was a keeper. I wanted to get an old partner involved on keyboards but he was moving and not set up. I asked him about his idea of what he would do and he said, 'you know me Civil, I would take it half-time 2/2 so the drummer has room to decorate your guitar solo'. I hear these Gnossiennes with the alternate bass/chord thing he does with them as down/up TWO STEP feel and this is why I thought reggae is a cool treatment of that. The music was barred in 4; it could be barred 8/4 if only because the motif is 8 beats long.
It's not typically played in tempo, so...When I called MB to do the rhythm guitar, no need to talk about time signature, he has the exact feel which is why he got called. But as the drummer I played with the time. Mainly the half time thing which give a rock backbeat in 2/2 while the riddim gittar is doing the typical. As I entertain myself conducting when I listen to it, I do 2/4 for some, 4/4 for some, and there is one spot where it's 3 + 5 = 8. I can't be wrong about my own music, you know. The rest is somebody's opinion.
to demonstrate:
Down, up, Down, up. 1 & 2 & 1 & 2 &...
The following track, Gnoss 3, same deal.
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someone called simon someone called simon https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185637
- KVRian
- 543 posts since 24 Jul, 2008 from a small city in a small country in the antipodes
Cool track! Didn't know that piece of music, but listening to the piano original now.
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- KVRist
- 441 posts since 30 Apr, 2007
Cool track!
That's probably what Satie said when someone asked him why he forgot to put bar lines in the score to this thing.jancivil wrote: I can't be wrong about my own music, you know. The rest is somebody's opinion.
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- KVRAF
- 7851 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 15 Feb, 2005
Just one thing: a whole note can exist in 2/4. You can always bind two half notes over two measuresnineofkings wrote:It would still be 2 quarter notes. 2/4 means two beats per measure, and each beat is a quarter note. Therefore a half note would be an entire measure, and whole notes wouldn't exist.
Last edited by frederik D on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 59 posts since 25 Nov, 2005
Part of a time signature is its metrical accents. If you don't want this, then you don't have to use a time signature, but if you do, then the metrical accents will always be there. They might not always be discernible on a computer, but real musicians will follow them subconsciously. - Remember, we're not talking about a massive accent here, just a subtle thing.
This is how you can tell the time signature of a piece of music just be listening. If there were no metrical accents, then 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 and so on would all sound the same.
However, you can always accent other beats of course. This can be done in a variety of ways; with a change of chord, percussive hits, long notes, big leaps and so on - the composer can of course put the accents wherever he wishes.
This doesn't remove the natural metrical accents; they are still there, but they might be less prominent than these artificial accents.
Take the tune "Happy Birthday" for example. On which beat of the bar does this tune start? Why? How can you tell?
Think about it. I can put whatever drum beat I want underneath it, but it won't change the basic metre of the tune.
This is how you can tell the time signature of a piece of music just be listening. If there were no metrical accents, then 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 and so on would all sound the same.
However, you can always accent other beats of course. This can be done in a variety of ways; with a change of chord, percussive hits, long notes, big leaps and so on - the composer can of course put the accents wherever he wishes.
This doesn't remove the natural metrical accents; they are still there, but they might be less prominent than these artificial accents.
Take the tune "Happy Birthday" for example. On which beat of the bar does this tune start? Why? How can you tell?
Think about it. I can put whatever drum beat I want underneath it, but it won't change the basic metre of the tune.
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 16 Oct, 2012
IMO it all comes down to phrasing and feeling. I Wouldn't worry much about time signatures...when I'm composing music and not thinking about the time signature, I'll go to notate and find I'm using all kinds of weird time signatures, or that the time signature changes throughout the song.
more interesting is the difference between 3/4 and 6/8.
more interesting is the difference between 3/4 and 6/8.