any unique sounding scales? or chord progressions?

[HordePrime]

It's not about "better", it's about finding new ways to express yourself.

Exactly, and that's the problem. It should be about finding "better" ways to express yourself, not necessarily "new" ways to do so.

There are emotions that can't be expressed in simple major or minor scales - like biting into an under-ripe banana, for instance, or finding a curious lump in your armpit one tranquil Sunday morning.

You mean, there are emotions that you can't express using "simple major or minor scales" (whatever that means).

A lot of great music has been made with guitars, why should anyone learn to play piano?

Indeed, and this is precisely my point. - Learning the piano will not make you a better guitarist.

[ariston]

There are emotions that can't be expressed in simple major or minor scales - like biting into an under-ripe banana, for instance, or finding a curious lump in your armpit one tranquil Sunday morning.

You mean, there are emotions that you can't express using "simple major or minor scales" (whatever that means).

As your overbearing demeanour suggests that you are able to do so, I then challenge you to write a convincing piece of music depicting the feeling of biting into an under-ripe banana in pentatonic scale.

Your move, Vardebedian.

[ariston]

Indeed, and this is precisely my point. - Learning the piano will not make you a better guitarist.

I think that all instrumentalists can benefit from learning another instrument. My best friend, who plays the saxophone, learned to play percussion, which noticeably improved his intonation and rhythmic diversity.

Sorry, what was your point again? You were saying?

[HordePrime]

I then challenge you to write a convincing piece of music depicting the feeling of biting into an under-ripe banana in pentatonic scale.

As this is obviously a completely subjective feeling, it would be very difficult for anyone to capture it satisfactorily using music. What I think the feeling is like is probably very different to what you think the feeling is like.

And I never mentioned the "pentatonic scale" - you're just trying to simplify things to make them sound inferior.

[tapper mike]

Scales can only take one so far.

I'd say explore different styles intensely. As opposed to trying to compensate by taking new progressions and scales against the same old thing. As much or moreso the feel of a piece is expressed rhythmically. How you say things is just as important to what you are saying. Develop your chops with for lack of a better term "accent" Embrace the textural character of style as an actor doesn't just read a line he "acts the part"

[ShadowsofBirds]

Im so sick of using and hearing the same scales and chords in music

I know what you mean. I'm sick of using and hearing the same letters of the English language all the time - it does get boring after a while doesn't it.

It constantly amazes me how people can keep writing books and screenplays using the same 26 letters. Surely there must come a point where all the combinations have been used? If we invent another letter or two, I'm sure books would be much more interesting.

Letters would be analogous to notes, wouldn't they?
Words - motif, sentences - phrase, Paragraphs - Theme..

I would think Scales would be analogous to language..
The point,abstractly speaking being that languages and Scales have different character..


Anyway - you can write great music with I, IV, V, and a major scale..
But I bet Miles Davis couldn't have written Bitches Brew in major.

[Aroused by JarJar]

There are emotions that can't be expressed in simple major or minor scales - like biting into an under-ripe banana, for instance, or finding a curious lump in your armpit one tranquil Sunday morning.

You mean, there are emotions that you can't express using "simple major or minor scales" (whatever that means).

So, you are saying that the blues were born of incompetence? Because blue notes don't exist on a piano, they are microtonal new notes. They are physically, measurably, new notes. Typically they hover very close to natural harmonic intervals based on the seventh harmonic partial. You can verify this for yourself by playing a 12-tET m7, then a 7:4 (969 cents).

I'd say that the emotion of the original blues musicians created, demanded, these notes. You'd say those guys should have stuck to the same notes Mozart did.

But even Mozart did not use the notes you think he did. Mozart used his father's tuning system. It is not the tuning we use today. As described in Leopold Mozart's book, and passed on by WA to his students, flats were higher than sharps. Db for example was a comma higher than C#. Mozart used about two dozen different tones, not twelve. For keyboards with only twelve keys, he used one of the compromises of the time- typically they'd tune the white keys "sweet" (1/6-comma meantone for the Mozarts) and fudge on the black keys.

Do you think Liszt was incapable of expressing himself? he used a different tuning and different scales than Mozart.

And what about all those many millions- probably more than a billion- people who use scales that have a third that is neither major nor minor, but "in the middle"? Why would they do that? Those cultures have major and minor thirds, why use another third? For expressing different emotions.

Because that is what "scales" are really all about. There are different scales and tunings for different emotions, feelings, expressions, stories to tell. It's not about novelty, it's about soul.

[D.Josef]

Now we are fudging tuning systems and scales. I don't think there is anything wrong with being interested in exotic scales. They are cool and new and give one great ideas, and I'm sure every musician goes through the phase when he has collections of various scales and modes, and tries improvising in all of them, just because it's interesting and new.

That said, of course, there is nothing wrong with major and minor, and they are the 90 in the 90-10 rule of music. (Or make it 99-1 maybe.) Then again, many exotic scales "fit into" one of the classic diatonic modes, by dropping some notes, and create new feels, atmospheres.
I'm pretty sure they can help coming up with new melodies. I love taking some interesting scale, and playing around with it.
Say, let's look at I bII bIII V bVI. It's Phrygian, without IV and bVII. But try playing with it, it makes for a heavily ethno feel.
It's fun. And it does help.

[Aroused by JarJar]

Now we are fudging tuning systems and scales. I don't think there is anything wrong with being interested in exotic scales. They are cool and new and give one great ideas, and I'm sure every musician goes through the phase when he has collections of various scales and modes, and tries improvising in all of them, just because it's interesting and new.

It's not "fudging"- the two cannot be separated. There are gobs of scales in the world which are distinguished by tuning rather than "notes". See Turkish makamlar for example. And western orchestral and choir music still distinguishes tones which are not distinguished on a piano. A tuning might mean the Fb and E are different notes. You can't separate tuning and scale.

And, it is important to realize that it is not "just because it's interesting and new", even though that's probably true for a lot of musicians (none I've ever got to know in real life, though). It's about feeling. I use "scales" that are thousands of years old, it doesn't get any more not-new than that. It's because they are able to be used to evoke sensations that cannot be found in other tunings. A semitone is simply not as tight and dissonant as a quartertone, for example, and a "middle" third offers other feelings than major or minor.

[Lazos]

I agree. I play a Turkish instrument called a yaylı tanbur and am familiar with a number of makamlar within the Turkish system. I can attest to the different colours one can hear when using a system of tuning unique from the Western 12-TET. Makam Rast has a very different flavour than the Western major scale, and Nihavent is not just a minor scale (see below). To to the OP's original comment: by all means play with alternative scales; we learn them to "forget" them and let the music flow anyway. An increased vocabulary will only enhance a musician's ability to express themselves.

Btw, what people are calling "Arabic" or "Byzantine" scales is called Hicaz in the Turkish system (spelled Hijaz in the Arabic). I always thought it was interesting to call just one scale "Arabic" when there are literally hundreds of Arabic and Turkish, et. al. scales. There is also more than one Byzantine mode.

One other note about these systems (and this mode of thinking can apply to Blues or really any style; though the Western styles don't have the canonical thinking attached to them, or in the same way at least): in the Turkish system, makamlar are not just scales. They are scales (often each makam is a group of scales) and the rules for using them. They are essentially collections/ sequences of "flavours" that evoke the mood of the makam when played in a particular order and with proper cadences on the correct notes. Outside of these traditional systems, one is obviously free to do whatever with whichever scale, but this is a point often overlooked by Western musicians (and this separates true improvisation within a makam vs. just "noodling" around in a scale pattern).

[jancivil]

Indeed, and this is precisely my point. - Learning the piano will not make you a better guitarist.

I think that all instrumentalists can benefit from learning another instrument. My best friend, who plays the saxophone, learned to play percussion, which noticeably improved his intonation and rhythmic diversity.

Sorry, what was your point again? You were saying?

learning as much about instruments I don't play in order to write convincingly for them; becoming a more capable percussionist; forays however inadvisedly into singing; delving into electronics and sound manipulation, et cetera, certainly expanded my musicianship and as far as my guitar playing extended my reach considerably.

[jancivil]

You mean, there are emotions that you can't express using "simple major or minor scales" (whatever that means).

you're pretending to make an argument that says 'one is unimaginative if they cannot be satisfied with major and minor scalar material'.

It's really a narrow-minded thing, and NEGATIVE thing to set out to do. It seems posed to announce to us a sort of superiority. You have the most useless and stupid analogies in service of this trollfest, too.

You have 'scales' analogous to '26 letters'. Literature analogy? Quite a lot of literature refers to another language than the text. As if nothing is spoken, there is no inflection or accent, or colloquialism, or dialect. And as if English is the only language spoken. You have such an amazingly ignorant view on display, and SO PROUDLY. You can't possibly have said anything in the realm of music to be this vacant in your assessment of what is done. You really should stop talking and do some listening in your life.

[gabebrunogarza1021]

Hey guys, I made this post because Im so sick of using and hearing the same scales and chords in music, and im getting kinda bored of using the same blues scale in my pieces.. Just wondering if you guys have any favourites that you use in your stuff...im looking for more of an exotic, darker, jazzier kinda feel..feel free to post regardless though! Thanks!

Use scales for experimenting with music but don't "try" to create something from a scale.
That's a road block.

I learned this
http://documentation.apple.com/en/logic ... 6section=0

Created Environment Macros for all the scales here
http://www.dolmetsch.com/pianochords.htm

and now do this to experiment with scales


I also have this
http://www.thumbjam.com/

and with all the scales from the above scale web site (dolmetsch) I created a scale file that I loaded in ThumbJam and now after I create something cool in Logic using my customized Environment Macros, I can improv using ThumbJam with the scale I was using in my Logic project or experiment with ThumbJam by switching scales to see if a different scale sounds cool against the scale in my Logic project.

And yes, I can record all this into Logic as well.

[vata44]

super locrian: E F G Ab Bb C D.

I have always found this one deeply inspiring...

[Ph-J]

As your overbearing demeanour suggests that you are able to do so, I then challenge you to write a convincing piece of music depicting the feeling of biting into an under-ripe banana in pentatonic scale.

if using two pentatonic scales a semitone apart is allowed, I might give it a try