CS-80 sound emulation

[brok landers]

or here, where he's in his nemo studios in paris at i believe the time when he did conquest to paradise:

#!

there you can clearly hear it's his playing and the intelligent layering...
throw one gutar sample at him and the way he plays it it comes alive, because he instinctiveley knows how to adapt a guita (or whatever other instrument" on keys, which is the most essential part when it comes to the original impression of the instrument...
it in his case goes that far, that what you actually hear, could be a plain sawtooth, but what you feel due to his way of adapting the feel of a violin, is a violin... i've yet to hear any musician who can do this as good as him, exept a good fried of mine, who's also (funny thing) a greek and even met vangelis quite a few times...

[brok landers]

or here, where you can realize that he actually plays all instruments at once, but uses the pedals to switch/blend with them... but, yeah, i carried it away a bit now, as you presumably rather need info on his "analog" times...
but once you click with how he does it, it's rather the extremely versatile playing that might stop you from doing how he does... at least that's what f***s me up here all the time....

[jackoo]

or here, where he's in his nemo studios in paris at i believe the time when he did conquest to paradise:

[http...]

there you can clearly hear it's his playing and the intelligent layering...
throw one gutar sample at him and the way he plays it it comes alive, because he instinctiveley knows how to adapt a guita (or whatever other instrument" on keys, which is the most essential part when it comes to the original impression of the instrument...
it in his case goes that far, that what you actually hear, could be a plain sawtooth, but what you feel due to his way of adapting the feel of a violin, is a violin... i've yet to hear any musician who can do this as good as him, exept a good fried of mine, who's also (funny thing) a greek and even met vangelis quite a few times...

How in the world does he handle the big drums? Velocity layers?

[brok landers]

or here, where he's in his nemo studios in paris at i believe the time when he did conquest to paradise:

[http...]

there you can clearly hear it's his playing and the intelligent layering...
throw one gutar sample at him and the way he plays it it comes alive, because he instinctiveley knows how to adapt a guita (or whatever other instrument" on keys, which is the most essential part when it comes to the original impression of the instrument...
it in his case goes that far, that what you actually hear, could be a plain sawtooth, but what you feel due to his way of adapting the feel of a violin, is a violin... i've yet to hear any musician who can do this as good as him, exept a good fried of mine, who's also (funny thing) a greek and even met vangelis quite a few times...

How in the world does he handle the big drums? Velocity layers?

yes, as well as i said - volume pedals and the intelligent use of them... see, back then, when analog synths were kinda new, they actually were adopted from analog organs, and these got used by vangelis (and not only him) by that time a lot. these machied developed their dynamic soley through the volume pedal only, there was no velocity. so he quite kinda learned how to use these pedals to create dynamic motion... the same technique, enhanced over the time with things like velocity, polyphonic aftertouch, ribbon control, keysplitting etc, he adapted with the newer technology using a lot of samplers, sampling based instruments and alike... once you've learnd not to be in need to look on your fingers/feet and can play freely, this technique becomes very advantageous... but that needs a daaaammed long and intense time to practise... think about a classic pianoplayer, he has to learn how to play without watching his fingers - vangelis had to be able to do this not only with his fingers, but with his feet, controlling various volume pedals at the same time, not even seeing them, all at a different position, and not only on one piano, but on multiple instruments... this kind of performing not a lot musicians ever could do to the perfection as vangesis did...

[himalaya]

i don't have any links right now, check out youtube, there's quite some videos about the way he works, and even quite some where you can observe how he does it...

Here's a good place to start ...

exactly. that video is very good actually, as it's a cutop of a lot of individual videos made about him (the unknown man is one of them, you can even see the full video on youtube)... but this one ensembles the most informative sections of the many...

In that video, from 3:16 and 4:04 min, Vangelis at his vintage best. This is it. Sadly, later on in the vid, that vintage synthfest is followed by bombastic orchestral pyrotechnics which I'm not a fan of. Somebody get that CS80 back into Vangelis' studio as he needs it. I mean just hear that sound at 5:54. It's ring modulation heaven. Often people ask how to use ring modulation in a musical way. This is one of the best examples. He starts with the ring mod as an effect by blasting a few exquisite sounds and then plays a few sustained notes with a slow ring mod rate...all done within a few seconds on the same sound...genius (Vangelis and CS80's ring mod design ).


and...and...here is a track Vangelis wrote about me



I now need to return the favour and write about him. Soon in the KVR Music Cafe Himalaya - Vangelis.

[Bronto Scorpio]

I now need to return the favour and write about him. Soon in the KVR Music Cafe Himalaya - Vangelis.

As others have said, Vangelis really plays his synths. He uses his synths similar to how David Gilmour uses his guitar, there can be whole songs in every single note. Articulation is very important.
It often helps not to see the melody as a collection of notes, but as one musical event for this kind of playing style.

I recorded a short Valhalla VintageVerb demo where I kind of used this technique yesterday:

Big Synth Hall

This is just a sawtooth through a filter and VintageVerb. There are no envelopes and stuff, everything is played in realtime using modhweel, pitchbend, aftertouch and an expression pedal.
The notes are completely static with a simply on/off envelope.

Cheers
Dennis

[brok landers]

>snip<
Somebody get that CS80 back into Vangelis' studio as he needs it.

oh how i wish for him to realize that, i prayed for that... even though i still like also some of his modern stuff, the vintage area between 75 up to the late 80's is, like you say - _it_. but as i got from a friend, who knows vangelis, he isn't really in health anymore and got quite "old" and strange... so i doubt he would ever get back to all the analog stuff he has stored and locked in his basement, i think it's a too high effort of energy that he doesn't bother to shoulder anymore... well, hope dies last... though in some of my rather rare dark hours i doubt that he will release any new music anyway... maybe when he dies, someone takes care of all that old, unreleased stuff he did (which must be 80% from what was actually released) and that will then see the light of day, posthumous, so to say...

and...and...here is a track Vangelis wrote about me

[here was the otherone]

I now need to return the favour and write about him. Soon in the KVR Music Cafe Himalaya - Vangelis.

i was actually wondering since i got to know you, when you would possibly come up with that...

[brok landers]

I now need to return the favour and write about him. Soon in the KVR Music Cafe Himalaya - Vangelis.

As others have said, Vangelis really plays his synths. He uses his synths similar to how David Gilmour uses his guitar, there can be whole songs in every single note. Articulation is very important.
It often helps not to see the melody as a collection of notes, but as one musical event for this kind of playing style.

I recorded a short Valhalla VintageVerb demo where I kind of used this technique yesterday:

Big Synth Hall

This is just a sawtooth through a filter and VintageVerb. There are no envelopes and stuff, everything is played in realtime using modhweel, pitchbend, aftertouch and an expression pedal.
The notes are completely static with a simply on/off envelope.

Cheers
Dennis

yes. you quite got it nailled with that audio example, only that the reverb modulates too much for my taste... i love modulated reverbs, but the original sound should not sound chorussed... and this reverb is extremely thick, imo way too thick for a lush, very open vangelis reverb... but that may be the algorithm of the reverb, not your fault... if you need to pull up the modulation that much to get rid of ringing or to create that deep roomy sound, it's the reverbs fault, which is extreeeeemly dense and doesn't leave room for the actual input signal anymore.
but again, you got what i mean, you understood, what i love so much at vangelis... these dynamics and the ability to play with vibrato and pitchbend makes the sound come alive...

[himalaya]

i was actually wondering since i got to know you, when you would possibly come up with that...

Thanks Brok. That will probably never happen. My chops are not up to standard and I don't have a meaty sounding Ring Modulator <--

I like some of his modern stuff too. But the '1462' album is my favorite when it comes to fusing pseudo-orchestral and ethnic sounds with electronic sounds. The 'Pinta, Nina, Santa Maria' track is epic, it 'gets' me every time. Anyone who likes to close their eyes and just daydream surrounded by a 'wash of sound' have a listen to this. There comes a moment later in the track where that Ring Modulator is used again (from about 8 min), and when I hear it I get goosebumps. Perfect execution, and it especially works when the whole track is heard (loud) in one go uninterrupted:

[brok landers]

>snip<
I like some of his modern stuff too. But the '1462' album is my favorite when it comes to fusing pseudo-orchestral and ethnic sounds with electronic sounds. The 'Pinta, Nina, Santa Maria' track is epic, it 'gets' me every time. Anyone who likes to close their eyes and just daydream surrounded by a 'wash of sound' have a listen to this. There comes a moment later in the track where that Ring Modulator is used again (from about 8 min), and when I hear it I get goosebumps. Perfect execution, and it especially works when the whole track is heard (loud) in one go uninterrupted:

[video was here]

i know that track (actually that album) as if i had produced it...
but especially that track (and the one before that which blents into pinta, nina&santa maria), really got me back then, after listening to the full album, i simply was and am still blown away by this track, as i saw the movie weeks earlier in a cinema, instantly remembering the scene with the 3 ships on sea... but i did not remember the track in the scene, rather when listening to the song, i could exactly feel and see the picture, as that's exactly what it transports. in other words, if i wouldn't have seen the movie and you'd ask me what this song is about, i'd probably say ships on sea with a quite majestic scene. that song just nails that pic into my head and it does that without any kind of offshore samples or fieldrecorded wave sounds...

however, i was quite shocked, when one day a friend came around with a korg 01w on his shoulders and said "man, you told me, that vangelis probobly worked his a** off for that intro fx ambience sound which you adore so much, now do 3 things: 1. turn that thing on, 2. press [insert a preset number here] and 3. play one note"...
that fx i adored so much in that recording, and, let's be honest, does the other 30% to summ the 100%, was a one note wonder... whoever did program that fx preset, he's the one who gets my alltime kudos for just this one preset alone... get this - once i heard that preset, i went and got me a 01w, how cool is that?!
but yeah, at the climax of that song, where he uses the cs80 finally again with that typical fanfare saw plus the way he uses the AM, this is exactly what i was initially saying when i stated he "plays" the instrument in a way noone else can... it's not that there's the "AM", it's how indepth and perfectly it integrates with the emotion of the song, it just fits like a glove... with just 4 notes (!?!)... thats where vangelis genious lies, apart from other areas where he also shines...
guys like me would have probably had to think 2 days in order to come up with such a perfect integration, then probably deathly failing while performing this, vangelis just feckin'presses record and does it without any thinking... and, if that wouldn't be enough already, if you would confrontate him with "man, that way gorgeously outstanding", he would come up with a big question mark in his face, because he wouldn't know what you mean, as he was "just" playing - for him that all is normal, it just comes out his fingers like that, there's no concept behind it... i hate to love this guy...

[MaxSynths]

@brok and the others: Concerning the playing tecnique and geniality... I remember that I read an interview where he said that he always used the "realtime" approach - also before the MIDI standard has been introduced - while performing/recording. I was a bit skeptic about the possibility to obtain the same results without a complex MIDI configuration; the examples posted before in this thread are good examples of what Vangelis can do, also without his complex MIDI setup, but in recent times I've found this video... My suggestion is to close your eyes and listen


This is one of the most incredible performances by an electronic musician IMO and in this video there are all the ingredients you are talking about brok

Enjoy!

[himalaya]

however, i was quite shocked, when one day a friend came around with a korg 01w on his shoulders and said "man, you told me, that vangelis probobly worked his a** off for that intro fx ambience sound which you adore so much, now do 3 things: 1. turn that thing on, 2. press [insert a preset number here] and 3. play one note"...

Yup. I know. I played a Korg N364 at a friends place and it has the same sound. It seems it's been repackaged a few times.

[brok landers]

however, i was quite shocked, when one day a friend came around with a korg 01w on his shoulders and said "man, you told me, that vangelis probobly worked his a** off for that intro fx ambience sound which you adore so much, now do 3 things: 1. turn that thing on, 2. press [insert a preset number here] and 3. play one note"...

Yup. I know. I played a Korg N364 at a friends place and it has the same sound. It seems it's been repackaged a few times.

well, it's too good to be just in one machine...

[brok landers]

@brok and the others: Concerning the playing tecnique and geniality... I remember that I read an interview where he said that he always used the "realtime" approach - also before the MIDI standard has been introduced - while performing/recording. I was a bit skeptic about the possibility to obtain the same results without a complex MIDI configuration; the examples posted before in this thread are good examples of what Vangelis can do, also without his complex MIDI setup, but in recent times I've found this video... My suggestion is to close your eyes and listen


This is one of the most incredible performances by an electronic musician IMO and in this video there are all the ingredients you are talking about brok

Enjoy!

[video was here]

indeed, unbelievable... i know an awful lot of vangelis videos, but i've yet to come across thatone. and it really shows off his playing capabilities... you can tell by the way he makes "mistakes" that it was improvised, or at least only roughly laid out...

[himalaya]

My suggestion is to close your eyes and listen

To late to close my eyes...I still saw that... a semi-naked Vangelis. Ouch.

Still, a great find, I haven't seen that video. That Hohner D6 makes surprising 'guitar' sound. I can't remember getting that sound when I had a D6 in my studio. My beloved Korg Mini 700 makes a showing, nice. Some very cool bass drones there as well. It's the first time I hear this track. Interesting...