KVR Audio

Scott Murrell · Post by **Scott Murrell** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:46 pm

Thanks for all of the responses, they're great and I can't believe I missed this thread (at least after I initially posted it and a response). Here's kind of what I meant and would love to see happen, I think it's been said very well already but just to put my 2 cents worth in.

GB is really nice and for a fun app it's great but for live use it's not practical or flexible enough to use. If you play live with an iPad chances are it's docked to something somewhere ( your mileage may vary) but for me my iPad rest on top of a stack of synths and line mixers so getting to it to strum isn't going to happen. this is where midi control would come in.
If I could trigger guitar chords (triads, inversions, 4th's. whatever)on my iPad using a midi keyboard and choose ahead of time (as a preset)the type of strumming (Audiobus doesn't allow for presets so it too isn't practical for me)then I too could join the wonderfully wild way out and wacky world of guitars!!
I would like 12 strings, 6 strings, electrics (Les Pauls, Strats, etc..) and acoustics.
I hope I said all of this in a coherent manner, I'm typing this while driving an 18 wheeler in heavy Dallas traffic...Not really!

P.s.- I completely agree with what was said about GB's effects, they reek! A strumming type app that's midi controlled with a variety of great guitars and great effects? I'd buy that in an instant!

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:36 pm

Guitarism doesn't yet have the ability though....thus the reason for the request.

--Sean

Rhism · Post by **Rhism** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:51 pm

Hey Sean! Your scenario would definitely be possible once guitarism adds MIDI In. This would just require a basic MIDI In implementation so not too worried about that. Note however that changing the tempo of a MIDI guitar track will also affect each strum, making it tighter or looser.

Still working on the guitar sounds IAP! Unfortunately I'm not a sound design expert so it takes me a long time to get this stuff sounding good enough for my ear. I've already gone through 4-5 iterations of the electric guitar, getting closer.

Bianca, I find your comment really interesting as I normally consider strumming to be the easier part of playing guitar, with fretting / chording being the difficult part. But I'm realizing that you're right - some strumming techniques are pretty tricky for people who don't play guitar. I'm going to be adding some features in the app to help people improve their strumming technique, learn new strumming styles etc. Auto-strumming is fine for getting a stock guitar loop into a DAW but it definitely loses the organic feel of live play, and it's way less fun

I'll probably add auto-strumming too but that needs a looping / sequencing engine so it might take a little more time.

Rhism · Post by **Rhism** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:56 pm

Scott, your description of your physical setup is immensely useful for me to understand and visualize the situation you're thinking about - thanks for that! I think I understand what you're looking for. Will spend some time thinking about how to allow someone to play guitarism from a MIDI keyboard and still have it sound natural, realistic, fluid etc. It sounds like you want a setup where you can control the entire app from MIDI and play whatever you want, change presets, effects etc all without ever touching your iPad, correct?

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:28 pm

Rhism wrote:Hey Sean! Your scenario would definitely be possible once guitarism adds MIDI In. This would just require a basic MIDI In implementation so not too worried about that. Note however that changing the tempo of a MIDI guitar track will also affect each strum, making it tighter or looser.

Still working on the guitar sounds IAP! Unfortunately I'm not a sound design expert so it takes me a long time to get this stuff sounding good enough for my ear. I've already gone through 4-5 iterations of the electric guitar, getting closer.

Bianca, I find your comment really interesting as I normally consider strumming to be the easier part of playing guitar, with fretting / chording being the difficult part. But I'm realizing that you're right - some strumming techniques are pretty tricky for people who don't play guitar. I'm going to be adding some features in the app to help people improve their strumming technique, learn new strumming styles etc. Auto-strumming is fine for getting a stock guitar loop into a DAW but it definitely loses the organic feel of live play, and it's way less fun

I'll probably add auto-strumming too but that needs a looping / sequencing engine so it might take a little more time.

Perfect!!! I'm definitely looking forward to MIDI IN then!!! I'm trying to be patient with the guitar sounds IAP, I really am! LOL!

--Sean

martygras · Post by **martygras** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:32 pm

I actually love the strum feature as is and have learned to use it quite well.
I just wanted to give my vision of what might help others who are better at keys.

Oh, and the fret noise is just the bee's knees.

Rhism · Post by **Rhism** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:23 pm

Thanks Marty, yeah this thread is making me realize that MIDI In can be really useful for people who don't play guitar but are better at keys.

Fun fact: I added the fret noise thing literally the night before I submitted v1 to the App Store - realized at the last minute that it'd be fun to add, and also useful aural feedback when sliding around on a touch screen.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:50 pm

Scott & Co.: basically what you're asking for is a program like RealGuitar or Strum Acoustic / Strum Electric, where MIDI input is parsed and manipulated to simulate guitar voicings and where the delayed playback of notes simulates strumming, among other guitar gestures... but for iPad.

Actually I've often wondered why someone didn't just package the MIDI part of these programs... it could be because the various gestures require different sample sets and automated key switching to get it to sound "real".

Scott Murrell · Post by **Scott Murrell** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:35 am

---Breeze, I'm familiar with those programs and they'[re kind of what I'm referring to but I don't like having to trigger the pitch with one hand and the strum with the other (if I understand their system correctly).

BiancaNeve · Post by **BiancaNeve** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:34 am

Agree with you on parsing the midi data but I'm more expecting something akin to guitar chord pro or echo guitar but with the chord selection and strum pattern selection coming from the midi data.

While thinking about the problem I wonder if something based on the old yamaha auto chord might simplify it?

The lowest white key sets the root, a black key to the left if it makes it a minor and a second white key makes it a seventh

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:53 am

Scott Murrell wrote:---Breeze, I'm familiar with those programs and they'[re kind of what I'm referring to but I don't like having to trigger the pitch with one hand and the strum with the other (if I understand their system correctly).

Hmmm... Well, if you don't do that I fail to see how you could send enough gestural information from playing a chord with one hand to make the performance convincing. I suppose you could use an automated system to alternate up and down strokes and velocity to alter both volume and strum speed, but there's a lot of variability even in a straight strumming performance. I've yet to find live automated strumming that sounds consistently convincing through an entire track. But I'm all ears!

Scott Murrell · Post by **Scott Murrell** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:13 pm

I know what you're saying is true but I don't have to convince you of my authenticity I have to entertain people who won't have your ear or your expertise'. I am a terrible guitarist so I'm pretty easy to please and I think probably a lot of those who come to see our band (a 3 piece classic rock kind of prog band)won't know that the strumming or finger picking isn't as a real guitarist would do it but if it sounds good I think we'd be okay.
I do agree with you though and appreciate your help, maybe with the help of those who do know what they're talking about with regards to guitars, strumming, picking etc...Rhism can create us a killer synth that might even make me sound good! Well that might be asking too much but hopefully I will sound like Clapton, Vai and Rhodes...LOL

Rhism · Post by **Rhism** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:10 pm

Good points all. Personally I am far more inclined to first try to make live user strumming easier and more accessible, before making an auto-arpeggiator. I'm going to focus on ways to make key-triggered strumming sound realistic and still feel fluid and natural to play without looping or automation. I haven't used the apps Breeze mentioned but I've heard other people talk about them - will definitely check them out when I start working on this stuff.

I will probably also add auto-arp loops at some point, but it's a lot more work and will be a bigger shift because right now guitarism is 100% live, nothing sequenced or looped, so I'll have to rethink many other aspects of the app when I do this.

Will be in touch as I get deeper into this stuff. There are two other IAPs I'm working on first (more guitar sounds, then pro techniques), the MIDI In IAP is scheduled after those two. And standard disclaimer: I reserve the right to reschedule these things as I see fit

Scott Murrell · Post by **Scott Murrell** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:11 pm

Rhism, I bet they'll be killer. Can't wait!

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:42 pm

Rhism, what is this "Pro Techniques" IAP that you are referring to? Maybe I missed what that one is going to be? Could you tell me about that one or point me to where it is talked about? Thanks!

--Sean

Sad days for app designers!