What do you think about "Harmonic Mixing"?

[Acid Mitch]

I'm just wondering why DJ's don't have 15 minutes time to learn the Circle of Fifths if they have 5 minutes time to learn the Camelot Circle which is basically the same...

Some of them do.

There are far more crutches available for musicians.Does that mean musicians aren't taking 15 mins to learn the circle of fiths ?

[Hink]

But imagine a top DJ comes on stage, then he/she switches the laptop on with all this great DJ software and "Mixed in Key" and "Find Songs Automatically" and "Occasionally Scratch Program" and "DJ Effects Volume 599" and so on, presses a few keys, and everything plays automatically for hours so he/she can go home...

-- would you call this a DJ??

well, admittedly they'd be upping the ante a bit from what a radio DJ does, but yeah.

Then every construction worker can be a DJ without learning anything...

oh, good god. well, we can't have untrained people playing records in public, that would be anarchy. can we legislate against this, because the next awful step is electricians and chippies playing in bands...

+1 but this does bring up the evolution of the dj which I believe is a bit interesting though ironically I despise commercial radio and grew up in a time where functions with a dj and not a live band were not worth going to (70s DJs). I believe in the early days (I believe, not fact) that DJs were pretty much unskilled laborers and their only job was to put a record on a record player and drop a tone arm on a record. I think the change started out in the 50s (again I could be wrong) where they became local "pop" figures.

Now today we have DJ's who are writing music, doing remixes, beat matching, they do play their gear as an instrument (and in it's own right it is of course) and perform as the are DJing. Then we have DJ's that do functions only and do not care about beat matching and mixing let alone remixing. Still it seems that even the most basic DJs have changed a lot from the "jockey" who just put records on the platter and dropped the needle.

I think the answer to vurt's question about whether or not DJ's need to learn theory is that some will on the path they are on, that is some of the DJ's who write, mix, remix and perform. At first i believed like an idiot that these guys "scratching" were lame, "battles" were you know the drill...but then in the late 90s I found myself working in a huge music store and I asked not to be in the guitar department. I found myself in recording, pro audio, keyboards and DJ'ing gear. I was pretty much blown away by a lot of the shows and competitions we would have on our stage and found an appreciation for those who use to talk over intros on songs, babble non stop on the radio and kind of made listening to the radio a "last resort".

Another thing that comes into play is the comment...

Then every construction worker can be a DJ without learning anything

Sorry T-L but that is very close to what I hear as a veteran guitar player, recording artist (for lack of a better term) and someone who has devoted his life to his passion...you use computers to write and record music, isn't that just pushing a bunch of buttons.

There was a time where I felt threatened by these people who would use loops and midi files with no knowledge and have people ooh and ahh over their music...then I simply realized that their music is no concern of mine and what other people see as their own direction is not mine.

I crave to improve my craft and hone my skills as I see fit to suit my goals, DJ's have done the same thing and also continue to do so as is evident in the evolution of the DJ...an important cog in the musical arts wheel

[Tricky-Loops]

OFFICIAL STATEMENT:

Tricky Loops doesn't have anything against DJ's, radio moderators, construction workers, truck drivers, electricians and singing gondoliere...



Stefan Raab is a butcher, so music production doesn't have to do anything with your profession...

But there are so many guys nowadays (in every farm) who call themselves DJ's, and all what they do is to switch their laptops on and press "play" (not to mention their boring mainstream music choice).

However, if the Camelot System helps them at least to mix more harmonically, this is a good thing for all these boring hall festivals in my area (where boozing as much as possible is the only occupation of the youth)...

[Acid Mitch]

But there are so many guys nowadays (in every farm) who call themselves DJ's, and all what they do is to switch their laptops on and press "play" (not to mention their boring mainstream music choice).

Hasn't miming been a big part of the music industry for decades ?

[ghettosynth]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

I suppose that many DJ's want to make their own music sooner or later, and if they already know some music theory it's easier for them than if the computer did everything for them in their life.

I'm not sure that I agree. If they use harmonic mixing then they learn through experience, for example, what the relative minor sounds like against the major. By not having to learn the mechanics, they are able to apply the theory in a manner effectively and learn to hear what moving around the circle of fifths sounds like. Yes, they have to think about translating now to the actual key names, but I argue that this is preferable to trying to put mechanics first and failing to do so because then you learn neither the mechanics, nor the musicality.

[ghettosynth]

The idea behind Mixed In Key is that it analyzes the harmonies and melodies of music. It shows you the musical key of every track, and helps you choose tracks that are harmonically compatible with each other. Harmonic mixing is an innovative way to mix tracks together, creating perfect DJ sets.

Uh, no. Harmonic mixing can prevent certain bad mistakes, but whether a DJ set is "perfect" or not is far less related to key than your exuberant response implies. Consider that bands seldom think about the relationship between keys of successive songs.

How important key is to a DJ mix is very much dependent on style, both the music style, and the DJ style. It's worth considering, but it's far from being that important and is certainly not all that "innovative." Many DJs have been aware of the issues and incorporating the ideas for far longer than "mixed in key" has been around.

It's something to consider, yes, but it's far less important than other skills, and it doesn't really mitigate the problem of clashing melodic parts just because you've chosen compatible keys for your records.

[jancivil]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

I suppose that many DJ's want to make their own music sooner or later, and if they already know some music theory it's easier for them than if the computer did everything for them in their life.

I'm not sure that I agree. If they use harmonic mixing then they learn through experience, for example, what the relative minor sounds like against the major. By not having to learn the mechanics, they are able to apply the theory in a manner effectively and learn to hear what moving around the circle of fifths sounds like. Yes, they have to think about translating now to the actual key names, but I argue that this is preferable to trying to put mechanics first and failing to do so because then you learn neither the mechanics, nor the musicality.

all of this word salad following the notion that learning/using the actual symbols for keys is just too much hassle. x 1000

one wonders how they manage to talk or read.

[aquar]

...

Welcome back

[DJ Warmonger]

Hello,

I wrote an article about harmonic mixing and related issues and thoughts. Hopefully it's worth a read and somebody may learn something from it.
Or I may hear something new from you, who knows