How to apply an exponential fade-out in Cubase or Reaper?

[TheAdventuringPanda]

your slider is already logarithmic because decibels, so a linear automation contour would produce an "exponential" amplitude decay. hehehehe. you can hate me, i'm right.

Why would I hate you for at least trying to answer my thread's question? Your answer would be right if "linear" automation of the fader actually moved the fader linearly, but in Reaper a "linear" automation of the fader doesn't really do that, as it's easy to verify. So, you're wrong (i.e., you buggered up). In Reaper, applying a "linear" envelope to the fader really applies a linear envelope to the amplitude of the signal (not a linear envelope to the amplitude's log, as you assumed).

ftr, sj is right, but his criteria are above your scope of interest.

Why do you believe that?

don't bash him, five years from now you'll know what he was talking about, and realise he is trying to inform you

And why do you believe that? Another of your errors, like the one you made about Reaper's fader-automation?

developers are the only people who will ever hear what an actual linear decay sounds like

Anyone who applies a linear fade in Reaper will hear what an actual linear decay sounds like.

btw you're all all of you buggered up your slider is already logarithmic because decibels

lol, if they didn't understand my statement ... this one is going to soar over heads at 30k ft.

yes, of course, butt-hurt Cubase fanboy in Alabama, you are way too smart for me to understand how awesome you are.

[SJ_Digriz]

I'm not sure why you are so angry Mr. Panda

But, you still haven't answered my question. Which of the infinite number of exponential curves is the one you need? Which host has it? And at what resolution do you need it to run? There are plenty of audio-engineering tools that let you set the exponents for a curve by the way. It's just typically not needed in a musical context. And it takes massive processing power to do it at a sample by sample basis in real time.

[TheAdventuringPanda]

I'm not sure why you are so angry Mr. Panda

by "angry", you mean my response to your anger which you have typed here?

But, you still haven't answered my question.

You introduced yourself by ignoring almost everything I wrote in the first post, claiming 4 spline-segments make an exponential curve, claiming that while it's not sample-perfect, people who want more accuracy don't exist; and calling me a douchebag for wanting more accuracy than Cubase provides. So, you're not relevant anymore. If you ask something worthwhile, I'll answer; until then, I can't help you with your questions.

[SJ_Digriz]

I'm not sure why you are so angry Mr. Panda

by "angry", you mean my response to your anger which you have typed here?

But, you still haven't answered my question.

You introduced yourself by ignoring almost everything I wrote in the first post, claiming 4 spline-segments make an exponential curve, claiming that while it's not sample-perfect, people who want more accuracy don't exist; and calling me a douchebag for wanting more accuracy than Cubase provides. So, you're not relevant anymore. If you ask something worthwhile, I'll answer; until then, I can't help you with your questions.

Actually I was referring to both you and I with the douchebagery comment. You referenced "mathematical", but then the rest of your comments made it seem you didn't understand what that actually means. For example you said "concave and convex ... but these aren't exponential". How do you know there isn't an exponential function that can create those curves? I was answering pedantic with pedantic. The little picture that let you select curves in the Cubase editor provide templates that are precise enough in the human discernment domain.

Anyhow, you are correct I did not read your last paragraph thoroughly. However, you can't "select" an exponential curve as there is an infinite set to choose from. You simply select a curve with exponential behavior. And if selecting a curve from a list is good enough for your purposes, then plunking in a few nodes is going to fine also.

In the scientific versions of plugins that do this sort of thing, you actually have to write/enter the function to generate the curve. Again, this is typically not a level of functionality required for musical context. In almost all traditional music DAWs they show a picture or provide a way to create a "roughly" exponential or log curve based on a general idea of the shape of those curves.

Anyhow, like many things internet .. I think you read far more into my reply than was there and I probably didn't read enough into yours

[TheAdventuringPanda]

You introduced yourself by ignoring almost everything I wrote in the first post....

... For example you said "concave and convex ... but these aren't exponential"....

But really, you fabricated that quote.

[SJ_Digriz]

You introduced yourself by ignoring almost everything I wrote in the first post....

... For example you said "concave and convex ... but these aren't exponential"....

But really, you fabricated that quote.

exact quote then ...

Reaper has options for fade-out curve-shapes, and a couple of the options look concave like an exponential curve would look, but not all concave curves are exponential,

[TheAdventuringPanda]

... plunking in a few nodes is going to fine....

A) What does Cubase do?
B) Does SJ_Digriz feel that what Cubase does is fine?

You want the thread to be (B), but it's really (A).

[SJ_Digriz]

... plunking in a few nodes is going to fine....

A) What does Cubase do?
B) Does SJ_Digriz feel that what Cubase does is fine?

You want the thread to be (B), but it's really (A).

No, simply want to know why you think you need a mathematically accurate exponential curve, and which particular ratio curve you are looking for.

[bmrzycki]

Reaper has options for fade-out curve-shapes, and a couple of the options look concave like an exponential curve would look, but not all concave curves are exponential, and the manual doesn't clarify whether any of these options are exponential.

Every track in Reaper has a "trim" button to apply an automation envelope to one or more aspects of the track (volume, pan, width, mute, etc).

Once you select something to automate (in your case it'd be volume) you will see a re sizable lane below your track. In there you can add any number of points and each point can have a different curve shape. The curve applies until the next point changes the type.

In your case, an exponential curve is best approximated with "fast start" as the right-click->set point shape option. Section 16 - Automation with Envelopes in the manual discusses this. The point shapes are in section 16.17 - Envelope Shapes.

It may not be exactly exponential but if you apply the change by ear I think you'll find something that you will like. And if it's too fast or slow, consider adding another point and adjusting the curve for each segment to your own taste. You can also change how steep the curve is by bringing the next point in the segment closer or further on the y-axis(time) to the first point.

[bmrzycki]

By the way, you can also change in Reaper's preferences exactly how you want the volume faders to respond to automation or manual movement:

the "dB. shape:" isn't well-documented in the manual (19.6.4 Appearance, Track Control Panels) but the tooltip from the preference window helps a bit when you hover over the option:

Sensitivity of the volume faders at the bottom and top. 1 is linear, lower gives more sensitivity at the bottom, higher at the top.

And although it's a pulldown box, you can actually type any number from 0.1 to 4.0 in there if you want to super-customize the curve. They mention it on the wiki:
http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/P ... g_Behavior

[TheAdventuringPanda]

...

[TheAdventuringPanda]

You are kind to write this out, but I already am getting exactly what I asked about -- an exponential envelope (not an almost-exponential envelope -- but an actual exponential envelope) from no fewer than 4 programs in my possession. I have no interest in moving to lower quality compared to what I'm currently doing. I have no doubt that what I want is an exponential envelope. KVR won't change my mind about that. I was only asking if it's possible in Reaper or Cubase. I wish I knew how to express that more clearly, because it's like I'm speaking a language that's foreign to KVR.

[TheAdventuringPanda]

Pretty clear that KVR is not a good place for discussing exponential envelopes, so I hereby turn this thread over to people who'd rather discuss non-exponential envelopes.