you mean 'traditional western music' theory, presumably. I suspect one or two musicians may have managed their entire lives without it.EnGee wrote:How long you will be able to call yourself musician without knowing at least the basic of music theory?!
A Must Read For All Synthesists And Music Makers
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35518 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 9150 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
Not only 'Western' really. The 'Arabic' or 'eastern' music is also need to be studied. There are no Chords , but still there is harmony and melody going on according to some 'rules' and usually written on staff.whyterabbyt wrote:you mean 'traditional western music' theory, presumably. I suspect one or two musicians may have managed their entire lives without it.EnGee wrote:How long you will be able to call yourself musician without knowing at least the basic of music theory?!
Anyway, I know musicians that they don't know how to read/write music, but they 'know' the rules for the specific music (Western, Arabic, Japanese ..etc). There is no 'random' playing and learning. It is a learning based on rules.
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Bitwig 5, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.
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- KVRian
- 1374 posts since 30 Mar, 2011
It's more "knowing the words, but not the grammar".EnGee wrote:It is like knowing 100 words and using them all the time to write poems!
But you have to admid that most of the popular genres of music only use a very small amount of what would be possible within musical theory.
It's just not fair to compare those poor efforts of 'western popular music' to the hights some composers like Bach or Beethoven have reached within their works.
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- KVRAF
- 9150 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
Sorry! I don't mean Classic Music. I'm not against pop music at all (including hip hop ..etc, well except dubstep maybe2ZrgE wrote:It's more "knowing the words, but not the grammar".EnGee wrote:It is like knowing 100 words and using them all the time to write poems!
But you have to admid that most of the popular genres of music only use a very small amount of what would be possible within musical theory.
It's just not fair to compare those poor efforts of 'western popular music' to the hights some composers like Bach or Beethoven have reached within their works.
!!) I love pop music and the simplicity of it 
What I meant we need at least to know the basics before we delve into music creating. What I mean, I need to know at least one musical scale of music and understand the relation of some chords! But that doesn't come from random learning right? There are many beginner's books out there and we can understand them, so why not study them?! Why insist only on our feelings as a guidance and ignore tons of experiences out there?
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Bitwig 5, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35518 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I suspect one or two musicians may have managed their entire lives without relying on music written on staff.EnGee wrote:Not only 'Western' really. The 'Arabic' or 'eastern' music is also need to be studied. There are no Chords , but still there is harmony and melody going on according to some 'rules' and usually written on staff.whyterabbyt wrote:you mean 'traditional western music' theory, presumably. I suspect one or two musicians may have managed their entire lives without it.EnGee wrote:How long you will be able to call yourself musician without knowing at least the basic of music theory?!
But at least you admit the possibility that more than one 'theory' exists. And of course, if there are a multiplicity of them, one wonders why one's own theories cant suffice.
Especially since the 'rules' should essentially be considered descriptive of the form rather than proscriptive. A 'music theory' is basically a framework of how to create music which fits that framework. Music can still be created without the reliance on any given framework, and in various places a very great deal of thought went on in the 20th Century to developing new ideas which eschewed the existing frameworks.
Well, it was after the rules were developed. But what you call the "'random' playing and learning" had to exist first, unless you're going to claim divine creation for those rules.There is no 'random' playing and learning. It is a learning based on rules.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 9936 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA
I don't agree with parts of it, especially this part "Not exactly: people are straight-up biased against creative ideas"
Just because there are shows like The Voice and American Idol, doesn't mean there aren't many people who favor great musicianship and originality over the same old processed junk. Maybe some people think every song has already been written, but I do not.
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- KVRian
- 540 posts since 7 Jul, 2004 from Skopje
I'm down with that.whyterabbyt wrote: But at least you admit the possibility that more than one 'theory' exists. And of course, if there are a multiplicity of them, one wonders why one's own theories cant suffice.
Especially since the 'rules' should essentially be considered descriptive of the form rather than proscriptive. A 'music theory' is basically a framework of how to create music which fits that framework. Music can still be created without the reliance on any given framework, and in various places a very great deal of thought went on in the 20th Century to developing new ideas which eschewed the existing frameworks.
I keep a hope in my heart that one day we'll see the end of 12-tet hegemony
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- KVRAF
- 9150 posts since 7 Oct, 2005
No, I don't believe in such divine powers!whyterabbyt wrote: Well, it was after the rules were developed. But what you call the "'random' playing and learning" had to exist first, unless you're going to claim divine creation for those rules.
If you have something 'new', how could people understand it if you can't understand it!
At first, yes there is some randomness, but after that we are trying to make sense and relation between the parts right? Or are we continue enjoying the randomness?
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Bitwig 5, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35518 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
So first you use random in quotes to imply you dont actually mean true randomness, and then you base this response on the fact that I supposedly actually mean true randomness?EnGee wrote:No, I don't believe in such divine powers!whyterabbyt wrote: Well, it was after the rules were developed. But what you call the "'random' playing and learning" had to exist first, unless you're going to claim divine creation for those rules.
If you have something 'new', how could people understand it if you can't understand it!
At first, yes there is some randomness, but after that we are trying to make sense and relation between the parts right? Or are we continue enjoying the randomness?
Disingenuous as f**k.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 25849 posts since 20 Jan, 2008 from a star near where you are
Wish I got paid for writing such contradictory drivel
"Your DAW's audio engine sucks" and then "You should be able to make your tracks sound amazing with minimal gear"
Basically saying that tools are unimportant, and then saying they are important
"Your DAW's audio engine sucks" and then "You should be able to make your tracks sound amazing with minimal gear"
Basically saying that tools are unimportant, and then saying they are important
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- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
5 website truisms
1) Listicle writers are underpaid and under tremendous pressure to get clicks and therefore write not to impart objective information or carefully considered opinion, but to maximize argument, controversy and SEO.
2) [...]
Seriously though, the bit about bias against creativity is interesting and could have been expanded into a full article. Clicking through to the Cornell link:
1) Listicle writers are underpaid and under tremendous pressure to get clicks and therefore write not to impart objective information or carefully considered opinion, but to maximize argument, controversy and SEO.
2) [...]
Seriously though, the bit about bias against creativity is interesting and could have been expanded into a full article. Clicking through to the Cornell link:
Sounds like a GWAR show?!Results revealed that while people explicitly claimed to desire creative ideas, they actually associated creative ideas with negative words such as "vomit," "poison" and "agony."
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35518 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Anyone wonder if the article is a pisstake?~Pd~ wrote:Sounds like a GWAR show?!Results revealed that while people explicitly claimed to desire creative ideas, they actually associated creative ideas with negative words such as "vomit," "poison" and "agony."
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 16977 posts since 23 Jun, 2010 from north of London ON
I "interpret" it is hilarious. We are going to see the humour in this, hopefully?
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing
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- KVRian
- 833 posts since 29 Jul, 2006
What, the Musicradar or the Cornell? I think the Cornell article is serious. It wasn't published on April 1...whyterabbyt wrote:Anyone wonder if the article is a pisstake?~Pd~ wrote:Sounds like a GWAR show?!Results revealed that while people explicitly claimed to desire creative ideas, they actually associated creative ideas with negative words such as "vomit," "poison" and "agony."