Analog and Digital - The Psychic Method - Tutorial Series

[wolverine6]

In the "effect" forum - I'm looking around for a plugin which provides a random effect. I'm hoping that there is an alternative to badbussmojo - While you randomise psycho frequencies and trigger minute differences seemingly randomly - it is hard to hear.

It has an unpleasant effect on the ear - Though, admittedly; I will always use it based upon its success rate. Just not neccessarily when it comes to midi-driven sampler wav's and such (Maybe not kicks or snares either)

I had been talking to someone today about an interesting realization - That is in the randomizing of notes.

I've read a fair bit of James Clavelle and various authors who write about Japan. "Buss" usually refers to a chef, and chefs for samurai usually were lower caste samurai; And they were trained by Geisha.

Little is it known the training of the geisha.. I.e In the methodology of them playing instruments. The way in which they would entertain with an instrument or their voice was a very methodical thing. Apparently, musicians would pluck a string with varying fingers and varying velocities intently (if to keep people lively) - or use the same gesture repeatedly to put the entertained to sleep (using melody).

It is an interesting and amusing similitude, When I think of Digital music always being the same. Though one could suggest it is always as it was intended - It is like the joke that is told many times over.

I'm hoping I find a good randomizer so that I can better illustrate how to provide listeners with exciting material. Psychicly - or by metal apprehension - Keeping material fresh is fundamental in this theorum.

Thanks,
Wolvertopy.

[whyterabbyt]

Tape ran faster then we could play it, because there was a latency; That is to say there was a differentiation between the tape playing and it being translated into being data or audio.

Tape works by transduction; between electrical and magnetic energy. There's nothing that could sanely be considered latency in that process, that's just nonsense.

With this in mind - Where did this residual data go?

What residual data? Even if data transmission has a latency, that doesnt create an intrinsic loss of that data. That's nonsense again.

Transience: Originally a term deriven from the explanation of this "data" lost in the "buffer".

Nope. There's no buffer, there's no lost data, and in 30-plus years you're the only person I've ever seen mention 'transience' as being a significant factor of tape.
Im not even sure if you mean 'transience' or if you just cant spell 'transients', or whether you conflated them (tape's effects on transients is commonly discussed, but the term has nothing to do with buffers or lost data)

"Oversampling" meant you were running the tape real hot.

No it didnt. In fact it never meant anything to do with tape ever, since it specifically refers to a digital methodology.

And of course that lead to the buffer spitting out random data.

Except it doesnt. Because there's no buffer, and the effect of oversaturation on an analog signal on tape is not random.

That is to say - Unlike the digital era, where it is assured what we would conceivably hear; Analog sound depended solely on the machine

Well, no, actually; the reconversion of digital audio into something we can hear 'solely depends' on 'the machine' too.

- And the hotter (faster) you ran the tape

No, 'hotter' in the context of tape recording refers to the amplitude of the signal, not the tape speed.

The more transience.

Whatever transience is that no-one ever put in the context of tape except you.

Of course hotter as it was actually used (ie amplitude, not tape speed) actually could affects the transients, but given your garbled psuedo-jargon and the miscomprehensions thereof, im sure that's just coincidence.

Anyways, all of this contains such glaring mistakes that only two possibilities present. One is that, despite your avowed interest in the process you've never actually read a single damned thing about it. Which hardly puts you in a position to make the assertions you have.
The other is that you're feigning that level of ignorance, and trolling.

[wolverine6]

Listen, I understand that a whole bunch of people have terminology and guides - some experience. But then I talked to the guys that "actually" worked with tape. I mean we're talking guys who used two copies of the same audio with tape played at the same time for chorus effect.

I'm talking about someone purposefully heating up the feed to make it slip,

And transience - The reason there was transience is because there was a gap where it was being read and where it was outputted. The idea was in the thousands of seconds between someone hearing it - And it being read that there was a randomizing effect. There was a natural buffer - There had to have been - A capacitor - a Transistor for the electrical data to be impeded long enough for it to be timed and set. Where would the data go ? Into a computer? lol.

I get it - there's many digital technologies, And maybe I'm no tape jockey - But I listened and I learned.
Things like oversamp[ling were two guys running the same tape to a feed.

Does that sound rediculous ? Yes, it was - And it was a hobby. All these things people used to do are the basis for these nifty plugins. Like lkjb's luftikus - Notice the 40k boost - And furthermore, the new tokyodawn equalizer called nova - in a free and paid version being able to handle analog's frequencies.

Not to mention the godlike plugin from bitsoft I think.

I look at plugins like tesslaMKII that specifically go over different eras of effect with terms such as transience and warmth. Excuse me, but I tell you - I've seen old people actually cutting tape and making music with it. And that was old tape that they'd had in their attic. They were already old - and I relaize you guys are quoting the theoretical.

Not things you've actually seen. And for the record - "hotter" meant the tape would 'slip in the mechanism - and the feed had to be tightened. I get it, these are'nt finite settings or buttons.

And that's the point of this theory - To create something randomly and something exciting and fresh. The enthusiasm which I guaged from people who showed me their hobby was infectious. Whatever digital technology mongols say lol.

And real hot is a term lol. hehe.

Take it from me - Meet with a tapehead. A guy with a magent making blur effects, a man with a lighter making the craziest shrill sound you ever heard.

Something so inprecise it has no guage or bearing on science - and frankly - If somehow such a concept can reproduced digitally - I am all for it.

[Doug1978]

Where can I buy this tutorial series from?

[whyterabbyt]

Listen, I understand that a whole bunch of people have terminology and guides - some experience. But then I talked to the guys that "actually" worked with tape. I mean we're talking guys who used two copies of the same audio with tape played at the same time for chorus effect.

You realise most of the other people in this thread have been working since there only was tape, dont you?

I'm talking about someone purposefully heating up the feed to make it slip,

Makes zero sense. You're talking about something you clearly didnt understand.

And transience - The reason there was transience is because there was a gap where it was being read and where it was outputted.

No there wasnt. There was a transduction process from the magnetism picked up by the playback head into an electrical signal, some alteration of electrical signal then the conversion of that back into magnetism, then kinetic energy.

There was a natural buffer - There had to have been - A capacitor - a Transistor

Well, neither of them are 'natural', but no, transduction doesnt need a 'natural buffer'.

for the electrical data to be impeded long enough for it to be timed and set.

What are you talking about? Audio on analog tape wasnt 'timed and set'. And any timing info that might have been striped on a tape had zero effect on the audio timing, it was all for the benefit of syncing other devices to the tape playback.

Where would the data go ? Into a computer? lol.

What data? What are you talking about?
Are you trying to conflate analogue audio on tape with digital data stored on an analogue medium?

If you're talking about tape backup from computers by the way, you're on even more of a hiding to nothing.

I get it - there's many digital technologies, And maybe I'm no tape jockey - But I listened and I learned.
Things like oversamp[ling were two guys running the same tape to a feed.

Nope. You clearly learned nothing.

. Excuse me, but I tell you - I've seen old people actually cutting tape and making music with it.

Oooooh. Ive been a young person doing it.

And that was old tape that they'd had in their attic.

Hmmm, I keep my old tape in the studio. The reel-to-reel fell off a shelf and died a couple of years ago, but the tape echo still works, as does the cassette dictaphone I use for messing with stuff.

They were already old - and I relaize you guys are quoting the theoretical.
Not things you've actually seen.

I'd suggest you try not to be so stupid round here.

And for the record - "hotter" meant the tape would 'slip in the mechanism - and the feed had to be tightened.

Provide a reference for that, then.

Like this:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mcA ... pe&f=false

[do_androids_dream]

First thing I'm wondering is.. which former member are you

[whyterabbyt]

Transience, as defined by wolvrine6 in this thread....

And "transience" for those that di not know, once referred to sound even byond the 40k limitation of analog.

So firstly 'transience' is sound above 40Khz.

Transients in this light can filter out huge errors in sound which only the subconcious mind can guage; So employing the tactic of first mastering in twenty then 30 - and finally 40 become prudent.

Has anyone ever tested the difference in fruity loops? Try the channel settings and change stretching from resample to pro transience.

Pro transience is nearly analog - built right into fruity loops - for you

Then its maybe got something to do with a resampling algorithm in FL (although that's actually 'Pro Transient' not 'Pro Transience')

Then 'transcience' becomes a term for an explanation of data which allegedly gets lost somewhere (but no it doesnt actually)

Tape ran faster then we could play it, because there was a latency; That is to say there was a differentiation between the tape playing and it being translated into being data or audio.

With this in mind - Where did this residual data go?

Transience: Originally a term deriven from the explanation of this "data" lost in the "buffer".

And finally its the result of a gap in something

And transience - The reason there was transience is because there was a gap where it was being read and where it was outputted.

So to sum up, transience is the resampling algorithm for sounds above 40Khz which have been lost in the gap between the buffer latency of something because data on tape.

I hope you've all learned something.

[jancivil]

There is clearly a fundamental confusion which stems from trying to apply digital or computer terms to tape. EG: Oversampling is strictly in the digital realm, its maths are strictly about samples, which is a wholly different way to reproduce sound than analog. It's done basically to deal with aliasing, and there is no aliasing in magnetic tape.

[whyterabbyt]

There is clearly a fundamental confusion which stems from trying to apply digital or computer terms to tape. EG: Oversampling is strictly in the digital realm, it's maths are strictly about samples, which is a wholly different way to reproduce sound than analog. It's done basically to deal with aliasing, and there is no aliasing in magnetic tape.

Shush. Only old people who have actually <and this should only be whispered, in awe....> worked with tape know the truth.
I mean, if what he says is true (and old people told him, so like, fact!) he says you can cut tape to oversample to the ballast capacitor for latency above 40Khz, and have your dilithium crystal do the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs!

[jancivil]

Excuse me, but I tell you - I've seen old people actually cutting tape and making music with it. And that was old tape that they'd had in their attic. They were already old - and I relaize you guys are quoting the theoretical.

I quoted some things that are known about the reality of tape. Which I actually do understand. And BTW, I learned how to edit audio by rocking the tape back and forth on the little desk on the Otari w. a razor blade, white grease sticks and splicing tape. And yeah, I was around 30 when CDs came to be.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Now I'm really lost, seems like it could be an interesting topic, if only I knew what was really being discussed here.

Are we talking about inherent limitations of various medium bandwidths and unintended but desirable by products of said recording mediums , ...or something else ?

I think language is causing the problems in this discussion maybe?

[jancivil]

You can cut tape to oversample to the ballast capacitor for latency above 40Khz, and have your dilithium crystal do the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs!

I think language is causing the problems

Could be he's from a whole nother dimension of spacetime.

[VariKusBrainZ]

You can cut tape to oversample to the ballast capacitor for latency above 40Khz, and have your dilithium crystal do the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs!

I think language is causing the problems

Could be he's from a whole nother dimension of spacetime.

I never understood flux capacitors

[whyterabbyt]

You can cut tape to oversample to the ballast capacitor for latency above 40Khz, and have your dilithium crystal do the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs!

I think language is causing the problems

Could be he's from a whole nother dimension of spacetime.

I never understood flux capacitors

Ah well... Never Mind The Ballasts.

[jancivil]

"terms such as ... warmth'. In all likelihood, a digital processor and 'warmth' is about emulating distortion what was inherent in the older media and possibly the roll-off of highs also inherent with tape. The thing is, to model this, one has to know a terrific lot about what actually physically goes on.

I'm not certain 'transience' is an audio term at all. Transients in audio involves the attack characteristic; in digital audio, clipping occurs (rather than saturation) and transients are flattened at the point it exceeds 0dB, unless something in software softens it. And people use brickwall limiters to protect against this, which tends to limit transients. Transients are not directly dependent on frequency. There may be, or tends to be a different harmonic profile in this transient than the rest of that sound. It was a thing in production in the tape realm where say a mic is set too close for your preferred headroom on purpose in order to push a transient result, but that could be done on the kick drum.