new iPad pro is there (10,5" and 12,9")

[Cinebient]

@pdxindy

As an owner, do you have the keyboard? Sorry if this sounds stooopid but is there a way of working with keyboard & 12.9 on your lap or is it too unstable?

Had the keyboard... gave it to someone who types a lot and had no laptop. I may buy it again sometime but I did not use it all that much. It's kind of annoying on the lap. You cannot adjust the tilt and it too easily comes apart. Of course if you are attentive, it functions, but I much prefer my MBP for when I am doing writing, web coding etc. It is so easy to pick up, move, change position, slouch down on the couch and so on.

I feared you would say that. If I get one I might have to set my 82 year old dad on the problem as his passion is inventing and making things!

I don't find the iPad Pro interesting for music stuff. My MBP has usb ports, so I can just plug in my Linnstrument and RME Babyface Pro and play. Both power fine from the laptop so it is easily portable... simple and compact to fit in a backpack - no fuss, no muss, no connectivity issues. None of my favorite music software is available for iOS. For these and other reasons, I find trying to do music stuff on the iPad Pro sucks compared to the MBP. It's no contest. I see no reason to try to make something work that is fundamentally not a good fit.

Where I find the iPad Pro (with Pencil) to be well worth it, is for drawing. Paintstorm has the best brushes I've tried (OSX or iOS) and it is such an obvious and natural experience to use. Affinity Photo is also now available for iOS and it works really well on the new iPad Pro. Still a few issues, but they are sorting that out fast and their GUI is great. I assume Affinity Designer will make its way to iOS as well. For graphics and drawing, the experience is immediately pleasing. The Pencil and touch screen just works better for this use and there is no need to connect other devices like with audio. I can go sit in the park with the iPad Pro and Pencil and nothing else and create work of the highest quality (with me being the only real limitation).

But some people succeed to do that with music apps as well
But i know what you mean. I went several times into the store to play with the new iPads and also with the new macbook pro 15" and i would agree that the macbook pro is superiour.
The thing what amazed me most on the iPad was indeed that 120Hz refresh rate of the screen.
But then i opened a game and of course it couldn´t run at that rate.
But music apps and animations on it looks just better in general as on my late 2013 macbook pro.
But the main thing is that while it´s awesome for consumers and drawing it still lacks more pro software. And that might not change before we get a seperate pro app app store without that freemium crab and one dollar stupid.
All the beauty of this device felt a bit wasted, even after 10 minutes.
I actually was surprised that the macbook amazed me much more. Like i said i find the giant force touch track pad really awesome and even the touch bar, especially with music apps like Garage Band i could try with it in the store.
I even realized that the really outstanding Apple trackpads can be better as multi-touch, since they offer very useful gestures and are accurate as the iOS screens for input (even more because i don´t hide stuff behind my fat fingers).
I wonder now about so much negative things about these new macbook pro and about the hype and rave for the new iPad pro.
I think i have to save up a while and selling some stuff to get a new macbook in a not so far future (maybe i wait for the next version with better CPU....i hope 6 core).
Like you said, they all have pro and contra and the right tool for the right job.
But if i had to choose one i would stay with my macbook still at this moment for sure.
If they would add that 120Hz refresh and Apple pencil support for the trackpad and they would costs €700 less i had bought one in a heartbeat (but had to hide that from the Mrs.).
I said it several times but my dream workstation would be a 17" macbook pro where this giant trackpad would be a multi-touch screen on it´s own (if you want), driven by iOS and an ARM 10X chip (or so) which could interact with the main screen macOS instead of mixing that up like windows 10.
I even thought about to build my own chassis for such a workstation, where i would connect maybe 2 iPhones or an iPad mini to a macbook. Not sure if that even would work.
Yeah, so there is so much place for improvements but since consumer and money is the main thing we will further get some snippets every year and have to pay a big amount for this.
Could someone freeze me and wake me up in 100 years.....but maybe i wake up in a lonely place

[lnikj]

.....but maybe i wake up in a lonely place

Like Ian Curtis

It's just sh*te not having enough money for a MBP. Apple's pricing for RAM and disks is just taking the p*ss. This thread is making me miserable. Like Ian Curtis

Thanks for the detailed replies guys

Edit: First World problem, of course

[Cinebient]

.....but maybe i wake up in a lonely place

Like Ian Curtis

It's just sh*te not having enough money for a MBP. Apple's pricing for RAM and disks is just taking the p*ss. This thread is making me miserable. Like Ian Curtis

Thanks for the detailed replies guys

Edit: First World problem, of course

Yes, of course first world problems.
I mean iPads and Macbooks are not cheap. But Macbook costs about 3X more......of course you maybe get 3 times more out of it but it´s just so much money at once and i even would think about it since i feel bad, my job kills me and some other issues and it would be great for a small midlife crisis (can´t afford to buy a cabrio). But my Mrs. would kill me maybe. She could not understand why i would pay so much money.
But maybe i take one if i get a good deal in the coming months. I got my current Macbook Pro for about 2/3 of the price because i bought it about 3/4 years after the release and there was also a "you pay no fee" sale (means another 19% less here).
IPads seems more stable in price (good for resale, bad if you search a sale).
Also iPads feels old after a year while i think my notebooks are mostly good for 3-5 years and i trade them then to family members which don´t need the latest and greatest.
I need to make some extra work as long as i can do it
But think about it that there are also many people who left their desktops and notebooks and likes iPads much more for music creation.
This is not the best forum for it. The "Audiobus Forum" would be the right place to look at.
There are also a lot iOS developers active.
https://forum.audiob.us

[pdxindy]

But think about it that there are also many people who left their desktops and notebooks and likes iPads much more for music creation.

I'm a bit curious what that looks like... How do they hook up external drives for storage space? Microphones to record live instruments and vocals? Midi controllers? Hardware synths? Monitors? Audio Interfaces? How do they move/organize samples and projects?

Or maybe it's mostly creating some music only inside the iPad itself... Apple has not made the iPad a friendly environment to hook stuff up to and stream data around.

[Cinebient]

But think about it that there are also many people who left their desktops and notebooks and likes iPads much more for music creation.

I'm a bit curious what that looks like... How do they hook up external drives for storage space? Microphones to record live instruments and vocals? Midi controllers? Hardware synths? Monitors? Audio Interfaces? How do they move/organize samples and projects?

Or maybe it's mostly creating some music only inside the iPad itself... Apple has not made the iPad a friendly environment to hook stuff up to and stream data around.

You can connect all these things to an iPad with the right interface too or just use the virtual keys because a lot apps are made for it.
I f.e. use my Seaboard Rise via bluetooth with it with nearly no latency.
Extern drives would be the biggest problem while it's possible but not for streaming samples, just import/export DAW projects, samples and stuff.
Also you get up to 512GB space these days.
And not everyone needs all this stuff.
I created 200+ full tracks on just my iPhone 4 and 5 and an iPad Air in the past.
Won't do that anymore but since the latest iPad Pro are nearly as fast (and faster in single core) than my i7 quadcore macbook pro i ask me if it's just a matter of time when they are more powerful, no bloated software, better optimized GUI, no piracy and obscure protect software and dongles needed and other stuff which is faster to use there (like deinstalling software).
I even think it works as a notebook replacement for many people. Not for me but in some years maybe.
I also have to think about that iOS is clearly the future for Apple and mac and macOS is just a side project anymore. Once X-code is on iOS, it will getting worse and not sure to invest in a OS sbd hardware with no future (maybe).
But that could change. Nobody knows how the market goes.
I can understand to pay 2 X the price of a maxed iPad but not 3-4 X. For that i expect it to be much more powerful.
Maybe Apple should put really their own chips into it in some years. Intel is loosing it. Or they should consider AMD for CPU.

[pdxindy]

You can connect all these things to an iPad with the right interface too or just use the virtual keys because a lot apps are made for it.
I f.e. use my Seaboard Rise via bluetooth with it with nearly no latency.

Have you measured the latency? It is still gonna be higher via BT.

Then how about jitter? From what I've read, bluetooth midi has a high jitter rate. Unacceptable really... though I suppose if you are quantizing everything to a beat, maybe it does not matter... for live playing though.

[telebunke]

But think about it that there are also many people who left their desktops and notebooks and likes iPads much more for music creation.

I'm a bit curious what that looks like... How do they hook up external drives for storage space? Microphones to record live instruments and vocals? Midi controllers? Hardware synths? Monitors? Audio Interfaces? How do they move/organize samples and projects?

Or maybe it's mostly creating some music only inside the iPad itself... Apple has not made the iPad a friendly environment to hook stuff up to and stream data around.

I am using the iPad for creating ideas.
For recording vocals I am using a Shure MOtiv MV51.
I am playing melodies with the virtual keyboards.
Currently I am using GarageBand a lot.
Then transfer the projects to the MacBookPro by Aitdrop and go on there.

[Cinebient]

You can connect all these things to an iPad with the right interface too or just use the virtual keys because a lot apps are made for it.
I f.e. use my Seaboard Rise via bluetooth with it with nearly no latency.

Have you measured the latency? It is still gonna be higher via BT.

Then how about jitter? From what I've read, bluetooth midi has a high jitter rate. Unacceptable really... though I suppose if you are quantizing everything to a beat, maybe it does not matter... for live playing though.

I havn´t measure it but it feels really tight for me. Maybe just a tiny bit more like via usb-cable
BUT....i when i want to use all the expression MPE goodies i often get disconnected (on mac as well) so i use it only as "normal" midi keyboard in this case. But you also can connect things via a CameraConnectionKit and other stuff.
Yes, it´s a bit more hassle like i can do on my mac and most hardware controllers seems to have still no iOS app to customize settings like there is no dashboard for iOS, so that i have to connect it to my mac if i want to change the settings of my Seaboard.
In general you can nearly connect everything you want but often you need a workaround or adapter and software etc.
There is sadly no Audio-Midi set-up like in macOS.
Like i said it will take some years before iOS is there, so maybe it´s better i really buy a new macbook pro instead and see what changed in the next 3 years.
Anyway i use both since one can´t replace the other. Some apps are just amazing and i have nothing on my mac which could do the same.

[BernardM]

Have you measured the latency? It is still gonna be higher via BT.

Then how about jitter? From what I've read, bluetooth midi has a high jitter rate. Unacceptable really... though I suppose if you are quantizing everything to a beat, maybe it does not matter... for live playing though.

I havn´t measure it but it feels really tight for me. Maybe just a tiny bit more like via usb-cable
BUT....i when i want to use all the expression MPE goodies i often get disconnected (on mac as well) so i use it only as "normal" midi keyboard in this case. But you also can connect things via a CameraConnectionKit and other stuff.

Interesting about the BT performance. I'm usually a big fan of everything wireless, and Bluetooth in particular, but for me the latency have always been a problem. Unfortunately it is not much a user can do about it (tweak parameters etc), as most of the buffers and retransmissions is bound to the HW/FW.

[siriusbliss]

Supposedly it's really hard to implement on touch a big screen rather than "holding features back".

It's not hard to implement touch on the large iPad screens, just adds more cost.
How many people are really using 3D touch on iPhones? I eventually turned it off on my iPhone.

F

[Cinebient]

Supposedly it's really hard to implement on touch a big screen rather than "holding features back".

It's not hard to implement touch on the large iPad screens, just adds more cost.
How many people are really using 3D touch on iPhones? I eventually turned it off on my iPhone.

F

At least one....me.
Still THE feature of iOS devices. But most people think it's just long press or pop and peek.
I must say due to lack of tactile feedback it's not good for velocity. But as polyphonic aftertouch it's awesome. A reason i still prefer it much over an iPad for direct virtual input.
I could they the same about the force touch trackpads.
Apps like Model 15 or the Roli Seaboard 5D shows what it can do. But yeah, it seems to be a niche like controllers ala' Seaboard Rise, Linnstrument etc.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Got to play with The new iPad (10"), with the pen, in a local Apple store. There is still a noticeable trail behind the pen, at speed, but it's a world away from using my current stylus on my iPad 3.

A really slick bit of kit...That I cannot dream of affording

In fact, everything in that section (It's an Apple store within a store), was just so slick. Getting up close to the new Macbook Pro's was fun! The touch-strips, despite being impractical in most situations, are really cool to use. However, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I am now priced out of the Apple market - My current 2012 model could be my last

[Cinebient]

Got to play with The new iPad (10"), with the pen, in a local Apple store. There is still a noticeable trail behind the pen, at speed, but it's a world away from using my current stylus on my iPad 3.

A really slick bit of kit...That I cannot dream of affording

In fact, everything in that section (It's an Apple store within a store), was just so slick. Getting up close to the new Macbook Pro's was fun! The touch-strips, despite being impractical in most situations, are really cool to use. However, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I am now priced out of the Apple market - My current 2012 model could be my last

I wonder why everybody hates the touch bar or find it just a gimmick
I tryed it now several times with GarageBand and if it´s well implemented it´s a very useful workflow. I wouldn´t need or use a touch screen on a notebook so it´s a good solution for me.
I mean i wish it had 3D touch as well and would be at least 2X the size.
The iPads are great and i want that 120Hz refresh on a macbook pro now. Otherwise the software is not there for me and the power feels a bit wasted.
For drawing it might be awesome and for some smaller music productions as well.
And i agree.....the pencil with the news screen is great bit it´s still miles away from pen and paper.
But the thing is today that hype gets hyped and hates get hated more.
You can´t trust anything you see on the net. Always try to touch/use it yourself and decide if it fits your workflow and if it´s worth the asked price. If it sucks....leave it. If you love it.....take it and don´t let people talk you out of it.
I also would like to buy a new macbook pro 15" but i can´t afford it. So i thought i could take an 10.5" iPad pro.....but since it´s not really a replacement for me it would be wasted money.

[lnikj]

The 17" MBP has started its cycle again of random shutdowns several times a day, ultimately related to the faulty onboard graphics chip overheating. I very much doubt that I am going to be able to persuade Apple to replace the logic board again (it is on its 4th). The problem is that they just ship out five year old refurb boards.

12.9" 256Gb, Logitech Slim Combo keyboard, Pencil and USB-3 CCK on order. Hoping it will work out for me. Fingers crossed. 2 weeks to wait.

[Cinebient]

The 17" MBP has started its cycle again of random shutdowns several times a day, ultimately related to the faulty onboard graphics chip overheating. I very much doubt that I am going to be able to persuade Apple to replace the logic board again (it is on its 4th). The problem is that they just ship out five year old refurb boards.

12.9" 256Gb, Logitech Slim Combo keyboard, Pencil and USB-3 CCK on order. Hoping it will work out for me. Fingers crossed. 2 weeks to wait.

Good luck! Let us know how it works out.