What is all that "warm" "Analog" - "cold" "digital" sound thing about?

[do_androids_dream]

All these terms are by comparison. Warm means slightly more distorted than something else. Cold means less distortion than something else. Turns out we like the sound of distortion - hence 'vinyl sounds better' etc.

[camsr]

Difference in tone with volume can be considered a kind of musical articulation. For example a soft spoken voice versus a scream, and the same lyrics being sung, can convey a completely different meaning. Hearing a synth like this is a longshot, they aren't "speaking" but they are conveying sound. I suppose this just has different meanings for different people. Analog circuits in overload/non-linear operation just happen to have difference in tone with volume, maybe that accounts for it's pleasant qualities?

[fmr]

All these terms are by comparison. Warm means slightly more distorted than something else. Cold means less distortion than something else. Turns out we like the sound of distortion - hence 'vinyl sounds better' etc.

So, what will be more "analog"? A DX7 recorded through an analog mixer on tape or a Minimoog recorded digitally on a hard-drive?

[himalaya]

All these terms are by comparison. Warm means slightly more distorted than something else. Cold means less distortion than something else. Turns out we like the sound of distortion - hence 'vinyl sounds better' etc.

Not always, there is a whole section of sounds which I could describe as 'warm', and which are not distorted.
Conversely, lots of distorted sounds can be described as 'cold'. All depends. It's all in-the-ear-of-the-heating-outlet.

[stardustmedia]

It's about which DAW you use. So choose carefully.

hahaha...

The only warm and analog DAW is a Neve or SSL console and tape. So just choose the DAW that fits you personally the best.

Otherwise...
Summer is warm.
Winter is cold.

Get the synths you like the most. That you can tweak the easiest to get your sounds. Nobody really cares, if your music rocks, anyway.

[dark water]

I expect there'll be some debate about 'warm' and all the other subjective adjectives for synths generally here for a bit longer.

However tapiodmitriyevich, with regard to your actual OP concern regarding Serum and DIVA, the reason I previously stated that it is not a 'thing' worth worrying about is because you can make Serum / DIVA sound a number of different ways.

For example, here is a Serum soundset I have previously bought from a talented designer which imho refutes the original premise that Serum is 'cold':

http://sound.artenuovo.com/warmed.html

If I could be arsed, I'd find you a 'cold digital' soundset for DIVA to refute the notion that it is intrinsically a 'warm' synth.

You get the drift.

[S0lo]

people so often talk about warm, analog sound. What is this about? From what I understand, people want sounds/instruments with some specific characteristics in it.

- not being 100% precise?
- distortions?
- noise?

It's funny that these were the exact problems that analog synth engineers were trying to avoid back in the 70s and early 80s.

[fluffy_little_something]

I expect there'll be some debate about 'warm' and all the other subjective adjectives for synths generally here for a bit longer.

However tapiodmitriyevich, with regard to your actual OP concern regarding Serum and DIVA, the reason I previously stated that it is not a 'thing' worth worrying about is because you can make Serum / DIVA sound a number of different ways.

For example, here is a Serum soundset I have previously bought from a talented designer which imho refutes the original premise that Serum is 'cold':

http://sound.artenuovo.com/warmed.html

If I could be arsed, I'd find you a 'cold digital' soundset for DIVA to refute the notion that it is intrinsically a 'warm' synth.

You get the drift.

As much as I like many of his sounds, I don't think those Serum patches sound warm. They sound a bit like Dune 2 to me, a bit sterile and digital, spacey and hollow.

[dark water]

Fair enough, and to me they sound 'warm'.

However, as you and I know with synth design, the main point is that DIVA and Serum etc can be made to sound a number of different ways. There is nothing intrinsically 'cold' about one or 'warm' about the other, as per the OP's original concern.

[fluffy_little_something]

When synths first started appearing in popular music etc, one the most common pejorative descriptions of them (often from musicians with a more luddite bent) was that they were thin, cold and sterile(*).

That exact same generations of analog synths is now revered, not just for their nostalgic/vintage associations, but for their warmth, thickness, and richness.

Funny that, innit.


* That notion even made them more popular with some musicians who used that to leverage a sense of alienation and dystopia (cf certain British post-punk Ballard-worshipping outfits, just before everything turned into bland plinky Synthpap.)

Well, initially they could only compare them to acoustic and electric instruments that dominated up until when synths came along, not to the DX7 or whatever. So naturally synths must have sounded a bit thin to them. Especially in the case of monophonic synths because the warmth often results from the voices of chords interacting. A violin alone can also sound rather cold and boring, but a string section is a different story.

And maybe those Brits wanted synths to sound that way, and programmed them accordingly.

Today, however, we don't compare synths to more traditional instruments, but to each other. We no longer consider synths to be instruments for emulating real instruments, but a class of instruments of their own. And since attributes such as warm or cold are based on different sound characters, and synths are all different (be it hardware or software), it is only natural that some synths sound warmer than others.

Still, I don't know which objective properties determines that warmth. Maybe the focus on certain frequency bands.

[foosnark]

A survey of a bunch of different listeners, with examples from different synths, processes, recording media etc. might clear it up. Or it might reveal the whole thing to be subjective, or complete bullshit. It could be something you have to be an expert to hear, or it could be something we've been conditioned into by years of marketing.

I have a suspicion that associations with "warm" or "cold" are less about what we hear and more what we believe about the technical details... and that most, if not all, of those beliefs are contradictory, irrelevant, based on false assumptions or stereotypes.

Which is warmer, tape or vinyl? A tube or a transistor? A 96kbps MP3 or a 320kbps MP3? A Game Boy or a C64? A triangle or a sine? A 12db ladder filter or a 24db ladder filter? A DX-7, a DX-7 II, FM8, or Volca FM? Serum or Diva? MIDI or CV? Monster Cable or Hosa? Wooden knobs or plastic? A 303 or a meth-addled duck?

[Jafo]

Marketing and resistance to new technologies. Sorry, but that's all there is to it. Back when Moog was doing his thing, his very worthy offerings -- the exact same analog ones praised nowadays for their warmth -- were considered hard and technological, if not necessarily harsh. But honestly, they all sound cold to everybody but a synth-head.

But that's not in any way a bad thing: in fact, that's their strength. Next to wailing, roaring guitars and vocals, and drummers being, well, drummers, synths provide a beautiful, much-needed sense of calm and other-worldliness in balance. Something cerebral and spacey and peaceful, ya know? A DX7 is just as valid and expressive a tool as a Moog, and both sound unnatural.

[chk071]

Marketing and resistance to new technologies. Sorry, but that's all there is to it. Back when Moog was doing his thing, his very worthy offerings -- the exact same analog ones praised nowadays for their warmth -- were considered hard and technological, if not necessarily harsh. But honestly, they all sound cold to everybody but a synth-head.

But that's not in any way a bad thing: in fact, that's their strength. Next to wailing, roaring guitars and vocals, and drummers being, well, drummers, synths provide a beautiful, much-needed sense of calm and other-worldliness in balance. Something cerebral and spacey and peaceful, ya know? A DX7 is just as valid and expressive a tool as a Moog, and both sound unnatural.

Well, so does an e-guitar. There's nothing "natural" to it, if you will. That's not the point here though. Warm, analog, cold, or digital of course only refer to synthesizers, in this case. And, there's absolutely a point to those terms, if you compare different synthesizers, analog, or digital. The only issue is laying a hand on it, and defining those terms, especially as there seems to be confusion about the definition. And i won't doubt that there's a lot of preference in defining those too. Sometimes i scratch my head about people's definition of these terms though. Or, rather, the examples people give for these terms.

[fmr]

Marketing and resistance to new technologies. Sorry, but that's all there is to it. Back when Moog was doing his thing, his very worthy offerings -- the exact same analog ones praised nowadays for their warmth -- were considered hard and technological, if not necessarily harsh. But honestly, they all sound cold to everybody but a synth-head.

But that's not in any way a bad thing: in fact, that's their strength. Next to wailing, roaring guitars and vocals, and drummers being, well, drummers, synths provide a beautiful, much-needed sense of calm and other-worldliness in balance. Something cerebral and spacey and peaceful, ya know? A DX7 is just as valid and expressive a tool as a Moog, and both sound unnatural.

^^^THIS^^^

I remember people referring to the recordings of Wendy Carlos, back in the begiining ofd the 702, as artificial, cold, mechanic, etc, as opposed to the same pieces played by people on a piano.

The same adjectives of coldness, artificiality, robotized, etc., were applied to Oxigene and Equinoxe by Jean-Michel Jarre (which were all recorded with analog synths).

Now people often give these as examples of the "warmness" of analog, as opposed to the "coldness" of digital.

IMO, they are what they are. Every synth can sound "cold" (to an extent) depending on how you program it, play it and record it, as it can also sound "warm" (again, depending on the very same).

Of course, it also depends on what you are meaning with those adjectives, and compared to what. A piano can sound cold and can sound warm. In the end, it's an acoustic instrument - you can't have more "analog" than that.

That said, if we are comparing DIVA with Serum, I'd say they are completely different beats. DIVA is basically a subtractive synth, with permutable "modules" that emulate similar "modules" from "analog" synths, while Serum is a wavetable synth. The filters in Serum have a competely different character than the ones in DIVA, since they were also thought for a different kind of sound. Both have their own "sound", which is quite different. In the musical whole, they would, probably, perform different roles, but each of them would have its place.

So, it's like comparing a violin and a french horn, and asking which one is "warmer", and which one is "colder"...

About the «what is all that "warm" "analog" - "cold" "digital" sound» I'd say it's all rubbish, especially if you tie warm with analog and cold with digital.

[whyterabbyt]

Well, initially they could only compare them to acoustic and electric instruments that dominated up until when synths came along

Yes, that's my point. The terms were being applied subjectively.

And maybe those Brits wanted synths to sound that way, and programmed them accordingly.

If it'd been the case that the useage of the terms came solely from the way 'those Brits' used them, I'd have said so.
But its pretty clear that Im saying that the descriptions were being used before that point in time.

Today, however, we don't compare synths to more traditional instruments, but to each other.

There's no 'however' about it, nowadays they get compared to each other and to other instruments. And the terms are still being applied subjectively, although the 'cultural baggage' of those terms has shifted.

We no longer consider synths to be instruments for emulating real instruments, but a class of instruments of their own.

There's no unified 'we' for whom that applies. Lizard Lounge has been a stape emulation of real instruments for years, as has Pianoteq etc etc. More broadly, synthetic strings, brass, and organ sounds are still used all over the place, made by synths. To many people its a thing synths are 'for.'