KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:05 pm

wagtunes wrote: Merry Christmas my friend.

Thanks, and to you.

Can't comment on Hexeract, but, i always thought loop playback was somewhat of a standard thing for samplers too.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:05 pm

So that's pretty much how Omnisphere 2 or Serum do it. No multisamples. No biggie, not the first time that happened.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:14 pm

EvilDragon wrote:So that's pretty much how Omnisphere 2 or Serum do it. No multisamples. No biggie, not the first time that happened.

Except you can't even sustain a note. Every sample loads as a one shot.

That is totally ridiculous.

goldenhelix · Post by **goldenhelix** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:59 pm

That does sound pretty lame. I don't know why they decided to use a proprietary format... seems like actually MORE work for them than if they had just used .wav files like every other sampler in the universe. I guess it's probably because of their own compression, which they claim reduces file size quite a bit, but it just doesn't seem like it'd be worth it to me.

Kinda glad I decided not to buy it, even if it looks cool. I would have been annoyed at the lack of this "feature" (not sure looping audio should be considered a feature in 2017).

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:12 pm

goldenhelix wrote:That does sound pretty lame. I don't know why they decided to use a proprietary format... seems like actually MORE work for them than if they had just used .wav files like every other sampler in the universe. I guess it's probably because of their own compression, which they claim reduces file size quite a bit, but it just doesn't seem like it'd be worth it to me.

Kinda glad I decided not to buy it, even if it looks cool. I would have been annoyed at the lack of this "feature" (not sure looping audio should be considered a feature in 2017).

The file sizes of their proprietary format aren't even that small. One sample I saw was 36 meg. There's all of just 124 samples that come with this thing at it still runs over a gig.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:15 pm

I use Live or Sound Forge to create loops. Never had any trouble ...

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:18 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:I use Live or Sound Forge to create loops. Never had any trouble ...

Creating loops isn't the problem. I'm able to do that just fine with tons of stuff, as it turns out. The problem is this piece of crap doesn't read loops...AT ALL.

A sample playback device that doesn't read loops. In 2017.

Un-freaking-believable.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:21 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:I use Live or Sound Forge to create loops. Never had any trouble ...

Not much of help as the problem remains: Hexeract can''t read your loop points out.

yellowmix · Post by **yellowmix** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:02 pm

EvilDragon wrote:So that's pretty much how Omnisphere 2 or Serum do it. No multisamples. No biggie, not the first time that happened.

Serum isn't trying to be a sampler, it just happens to use sample playback for the "noise" generator, so it's a poor comparison.

Omnisphere detects and uses loop points, and while it does not support user multisamples, it blows Hexeract away in every category: sound sources, synth engine, modulation, FX. And given the breadth and scope of Omnisphere's Factory Library, makes user samples less of a necessity. On the other hand, Hexeract costs less, but in terms of value and ability, I don't think the difference is worth it. It's literally orders of magnitude. Better to put the money aside for Omnisphere. Or Falcon, which does sample editing, multisamples with a mapping editor, and all that fun stuff.

Auddict doesn't want it to be that deep a sampler and I get it. But I do hope Auddict reconsiders, given the position it's trying to play in the marketplace. The sampler engine it sits on is capable of it, and exposing such capabilities would solidify a position. As it stands, it doesn't holistically live up to the standards set by any existing product and it's not even better than products in the lower price tier. It either needs to make a more compelling sample engine and/or make a better case for the sample content. This is a soft-launch trading on their brand in a specific community, so they have an opportunity to make it so for the wider market.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:40 pm

yellowmix wrote:
Auddict doesn't want it to be that deep a sampler and I get it. But I do hope Auddict reconsiders, given the position it's trying to play in the marketplace. The sampler engine it sits on is capable of it, and exposing such capabilities would solidify a position. .

Well said.
There is always the question of the 'vision' the company may have for its product, a vision which may affect the feature set. However, in the case of this instrument, it's based on the HISE framework which supports the SFZ format (I don't know how deeply), so it could provide an easy way to use looped multi-samples. This wouldn't need any 'sampler'-specific features - just the ability to load and read the SFZ format, and all the actually SFZ sample 'assembly' can be done manually (by editing a text file and write SFZ opcodes) or by using 3rd party tools, or a combination of the two.
So, this would leave Hexeract intact as a 'synth' without having to become a full blown sampler with sample editing and looping tools.

Personally, when I see a new synth that supports sample playback, I always check if it supports the SFZ format as it can really expand the sonic palette exponentially.

Look at Alchemy, it's a synth and a sample 'mangling' tool, and one would perhaps not expect it to support any specific multi-sample and looping features, and yet its SFZ support allows for looped multi-samples. Although, Alchemy's implementation uses a subset of the full SFZ spec, it's still extremely useful.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:49 pm

murnau wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:I use Live or Sound Forge to create loops. Never had any trouble ...
Not much of help as the problem remains: Hexeract can''t read your loop points out.

Also, Sound Forge at least would not be suitable as a one-stop shop for making multi-samples, with different key-zones and velocity-zones. Here, we really need dedicated tools.
The every best tool for this, Redmatica KeyMap Pro is not longer available, sadly. A truly, unique, ingenious professional application. One of a kind. If we could organise a petition for Apple to release it I would be the first in the queue!

As to Live, I know it handles multisamples ( I made some for its factory set) but I can not remember how it goes about it and whether it allows to export to other formats ( I used it in 2007 and can not remember how it does things).

dnekm · Post by **dnekm** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:24 am

I cannot speak as to the vision of the creators of this instrument, but I can say that - as a sound design tool - it has possibilities.

That being said,I do not think at this point in time for sample import to be so dodgy. But I made the investment willingly and if I find workarounds I will let people know. I am good at finding out different ways of doing things...

One other thought - give them a little time (the Hexeract devs) to address these issues.

I consider my purchase of the instrument an investment. What it turns into? Anyone's guess.

Can I make it work for me? Most likely...

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:43 am

dnekm wrote:I cannot speak as to the vision of the creators of this instrument, but I can say that - as a sound design tool - it has possibilities.

That being said,I do not think at this point in time for sample import to be so dodgy. But I made the investment willingly and if I find workarounds I will let people know. I am good at finding out different ways of doing things...

One other thought - give them a little time (the Hexeract devs) to address these issues.

I consider my purchase of the instrument an investment. What it turns into? Anyone's guess.

Can I make it work for me? Most likely...

Unfortunately, there is no workaround for holding down a key and making an imported sample sustain unless you make the sample itself ridiculously long so that playing from start to finish takes time.

Now granted, the Mellotron had this restriction of 8 second loops. But even an 8 second loop, because you can't set the sample root, may only last for a few seconds as you go up the keyboard.

Bottom line: Nothing you're going to do is going to make a note sustain for an imported sample.

But good luck trying.

dnekm · Post by **dnekm** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:52 am

What you say might be true if I were working with small samples.....

I already have an idea...

Hexeract seems to identify upwards. So I will take a random sample tomorrow and set the root note 1 and 2 and 3 octaves higher and see what happens.

Will report back after...

At this point - it is not about the instrument but how I can use it.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:01 am

dnekm wrote:What you say might be true if I were working with small samples.....

I already have an idea...

Hexeract seems to identify upwards. So I will take a random sample tomorrow and set the root note 1 and 2 and 3 octaves higher and see what happens.

Will report back after...

At this point - it is not about the instrument but how I can use it.

Well, if you do find a suitable workaround, please do share.

For The Love Of God...How Do You Create A Wav That Loops?