KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:19 pm

robotmonkey wrote:The correct answer is Reaper. Has it already been mentioned?

Yes, coincidentally.

THE INTRANCER · Post by **THE INTRANCER** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:26 pm

Just a reminder people.... but the topic is 'Cakewalk Bandlab V Presonus Studio One'. Two fairly big daws with many differences and workflow aspects that many may not be aware of.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:32 pm

robotmonkey wrote:The correct answer is Reaper. Has it already been mentioned?

12 posts in and there it is, the intentional attempt to derail the thread with Reaper, people complain about this so I have been watching...does the thread title mention reaper? No. Does your post mention either of the products in the thread title? No.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:21 am

chk071 wrote: I won't though, because, forums actually mean s***. .

Ok, I will ignore you then, because you are not here in this forum

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:01 am

chk071 wrote: I could even argue that more forum activity and discussion means that people have more need for help,

Additionally, it also seems that many people are just plain lazy, buy a complex product and don't even bother to read or search the manuals for anything. You see it all over Facebook and across multiple daw forums where a good 60-70% of the questions are basic things that can be easily found in 30 seconds in the user manuals.

Reaper is a little different and excepted from some of that because of it's overwheling number of options and preferences and user scripts and things, but for just about every other product, a lot of it is just lazy people.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:33 am

LawrenceF wrote:
chk071 wrote: I could even argue that more forum activity and discussion means that people have more need for help,
Additionally, it also seems that many people are just plain lazy, buy a complex product and don't even bother to read or search the manuals for anything. You see it all over Facebook and across multiple daw forums where a good 60-70% of the questions are basic things that can be easily found in 30 seconds in the user manuals.

Reaper is a little different and excepted from some of that because of it's overwheling number of options and preferences and user scripts and things, but for just about every other product, a lot of it is just lazy people.

Might a simpler answer to your "lazy" theory be extroverts versus introverts ?

For instance, I am intoverted and pretty much never ask a question on a daw forum but willl read the manual. But sometimes the answer is just not forthcoming.

A quick google will sometimes point me to a question that a "lazy" person has already asked and had answered.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:03 pm

Nah.

It's not intro or extroversion. You're working with a new product and you run into something you don't understand yet about it and have two choices... (aside from a Google search)...

1. Look at tooltips or labels for that thing and search for those terms in the manual, which often takes all of 90 seconds to locate the correct one if you get multiple results, and maybe another 120 seconds of reading a full page to understand it.. or...

2. Post it on Facebook or a Forum and come back 2-3 hours later or the next day to see if the answer is there.

One of those is obviously more efficient than the other. You'd be surprised how many people skip even doing #1. You literally tell them, "I just put x word in the manual search box and the first result was the answer.", and they'll quite literally tell you that they never did that.

Facebook or the user forums - is - the manual for some people.

gabgue · Post by **gabgue** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:17 pm

Presonus Studio One free cant load VST, today a lot of tools are in VST format, then Studio One is for few people that only need record for little projects, really a comparison with Sonar is not very usefull, compare Sonar with Tracktion 6 or Mulab Free but in this cases Sonar is better in almost points.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:32 pm

gabgue wrote:Presonus Studio One free cant load VST, today a lot of tools are in VST format, then Studio One is for few people that only need record for little projects, really a comparison with Sonar is not very usefull, compare Sonar with Tracktion 6 or Mulab Free but in this cases Sonar is better in almost points.

Actually, you have a good point.

Cakewalk Bandlab is free and Studio One is a paid for daw. So its pointless comparing the two.

Neither does Cakewalk Bandlab versus Tracktion 6 work as the former is the latest up to date version and the latter is an old out of date daw.

Only time will tell how this all pans out, but we are in interesting times as regards music production.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:39 pm

The Artist version of Studio One (formerly called "Producer" for version 2) is indeed a difficult topic. I think they were probably disappointed that many people rather bought the Producer version than the Pro version of Studio One 2, so they thought they'd have to limit it more in version 3. At least that's my theory. A DAW without VST support is utterly useless for me, so, i can't really imagine they sell many copies of the Artist version. They should rather limit it in another, more suitable way. IMO.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:18 pm

chk071 wrote:The Artist version of Studio One (formerly called "Producer" for version 2) is indeed a difficult topic. I think they were probably disappointed that many people rather bought the Producer version than the Pro version of Studio One 2, so they thought they'd have to limit it more in version 3. At least that's my theory. A DAW without VST support is utterly useless for me, so, i can't really imagine they sell many copies of the Artist version. They should rather limit it in another, more suitable way. IMO.

Agreed.

I have the Artist version and never use it because it does not have vsts.

Why they could not restict it to a certain number of tracks and give vst support is a total mystery.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:25 pm

To consult my crystal ball, i would predict that the smaller version of Studio One 4 actually comes with VST support.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:37 pm

chk071 wrote:The Artist version of Studio One (formerly called "Producer" for version 2) is indeed a difficult topic. I think they were probably disappointed that many people rather bought the Producer version than the Pro version of Studio One 2, so they thought they'd have to limit it more in version 3.

It didn't really change much imo. IIRC, the price difference between Artist and Producer in v2 is about the same as it is now with Artist + VST Support in v3. They just removed the mid level product Producer and built VST support into an optional add-on. Kinda the same thing really but you'd have to find some old archived store pages to see the original prices I guess, to see if it was $80 or more to buy Producer over Artist.

Anyway, Artist won't match the full Sonar feature wise overall obviously, but $180 (Artist + VST Support) isn't really a horrible price for a decent daw. I'd have to look at what the $200 Cubase version or similar has or not to fairly compare them though.

Re: Bandlab Sonar... it looks really nice, especially being free and with it not being a "lite" version it doesn't make much sense to compare it to Artist... but it looks great.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:48 pm

One thing I do like about "Cakewalk" after playing with it (I'm gonna have some trouble calling it that and not "Sonar", it's gonna take awhile... ) is how "data zoom" is per track, you can zoom waveforms up per track instead of globally across all tracks, which is nice. In Studio One it's only global. Per track is better imo. Nice touch, that.

P.S. I assume without knowing that it is indeed data zoom, and not literal gain. I admit to not actually playing the track when doing that.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:21 pm

LawrenceF wrote:
chk071 wrote:The Artist version of Studio One (formerly called "Producer" for version 2) is indeed a difficult topic. I think they were probably disappointed that many people rather bought the Producer version than the Pro version of Studio One 2, so they thought they'd have to limit it more in version 3.
It didn't really change much imo. IIRC, the price difference between Artist and Producer in v2 is about the same as it is now with Artist + VST Support in v3. They just removed the mid level product Producer and built VST support into an optional add-on. Kinda the same thing really but you'd have to find some old archived store pages to see the original prices I guess, to see if it was $80 or more to buy Producer over Artist.

Anyway, Artist won't match the full Sonar feature wise overall obviously, but $180 (Artist + VST Support) isn't really a horrible price for a decent daw. I'd have to look at what the $200 Cubase version or similar has or not to fairly compare them though.

Right... i just wonder why they didn't just sell it for $180 in the first place then, as i really can't imagine many use cases where VST support wouldn't be a thing. Especially when you have to pay $80 just for the VST support then, which is almost as much as Artist itself.