Another DnB Track, looking for feedback :)

[Zeekuh]

Edit - back to the drawing board

This is my first master with ozone, good stuff.
Any feedback appreciated!

Regards
Zeekuh

I don't understand the point of deleting a post. Posting in a public forum like this, in a thread full of comments and deleting the main post instead of letting others (especially newbies) learn from this is the same as spitting in your own well. I for one, hope you will not get such extensive feedback on your next post, if this is the way you treat the forum back.

I did not consider this as a viewpoint, edited back the old trashy version, will keep the old version untill i've come up with a better one.
In the future i wont remove the links.

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-its/s-DmSFI

Regards
Zeekuh

[Kongru]

One thing I'd recommend when it comes to mixing/ mastering is A/Bing tracks. That means loading in a track that you like the sound of and soloing it against your track. You're unlikely to get close to their master at this stage but it will highlight the issues in your track so you can work on fixing them.

I also think you might be rushing into learning mastering if you've only been doing this for a couple of months. Why not focus on songwriting and sound design until you're confident in them and then learn mastering? You might be biting off more than you can chew doing it all at once, especially since things like Landr will do it with little fuss.

Lastly, I would be wary about taking advice about DnB from people that don't listen to the genre. Mainstream DnB is wildly different to underground DnB and only DnB producers/ fans will know the 'rules' of the genre. I think you posted a song before (it might have been someone else) and Wagtunes commented saying he didn't like the beat, so you changed it but you ended up changing it from DnB to something else. There was nothing wrong with the original beat, it was a fine DnB beat. If you listen to Wagtune's music you'll see that his style is pretty much the antithesis to modern electronic music, so take all advice with a pinch of salt.

Maybe check out Dogs On Acid, it's a dedicated DnB production forum and has helped people such as Noisia.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it-1/s-000ih

This is my first master with ozone, good stuff.
Any feedback appreciated!

Regards
Zeekuh

Your track is a distorted mess.

It lacks both engineering skill and also musical skill.

You over did it with the Ozone, but underdid it with the musical content.

It has very few redeeming features.

I'd go back to the drawing board and seriously re-evaluate what it is you want to do with music.

Possibly your life.

I see you're smoking the same strain as Wags

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Good that you re-uploaded! Will have a re-listen, later

[Robmobius]

PS - Don't mind Codec_Spurt he's a mental midget.

You're going well considering you've only been at it a few months - Keep it up!

[wagtunes]

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it-1/s-000ih

This is my first master with ozone, good stuff.
Any feedback appreciated!

Regards
Zeekuh

Your track is a distorted mess.

It lacks both engineering skill and also musical skill.

You over did it with the Ozone, but underdid it with the musical content.

It has very few redeeming features.

I'd go back to the drawing board and seriously re-evaluate what it is you want to do with music.

Possibly your life.

I see you're smoking the same strain as Wags

You know what man? Don't drag me into your argument with him. I was done with this thread. So lay off.

[Endor-8o8]

There's a good vibe in this track.
I just think it suffers from the common beginners mistakes when it comes
to mix and arrangements. Nothing dramatic to me...

Concerning the mix part, there's not enough movement in the stereo field in my opinion. My overall impression is that your mix sounds too narrow, too static. Try panning some voice cuts here and there, try panning some hihat parts, maybe you should consider adding delays at some points to add movement to some parts. Your drums lack some attitude, maybe try to add a bit of saturation (keyword here is "a bit" not too much)
and EQ to it. Maybe you can also try to add some reverb or space to the snare. The beat sounds dry and tiny, try making it sound bold and big.

About the arrangement aspect, I think you may consider muting elements during a longer time. The voice for example, hearing it continuously can lower the interest we have for it. Bring it in, bring it out, so the listener can appreciate its presence and then miss it at some point. Same with the hihat or the snare or whatever elements of the song you have. Listen to a part of your song in loop mode and try muting elements randomly to see what sensation it brings and how it can impact your production in a good or a bad way. Maybe you'll find that a part with only the voice and the kick will sound amazing or that a part with just the pad and voice will do fine too, whatever feels good to you.

We all have to start somewhere, we all have done shitty songs with shitty mixes and shitty masters, we all keep making mistakes. The only thing you have to focus on is improving your skills, again and again and again. Don't be discouraged by anyone negativity here or anywhere else. Keep listening and analyzing the artists you respect, try to understand what makes their production so good to your ears and learn from it.

I wish you the best for your future music ! Keep it up man !

[Jopmanajop]

Wow, melodically this one is better than previous, no primitive chord progression, interesting flow, great job!
But again, it is undermixed and over"mastered". I used to do such things too when i only started, put some mastering module and squash the life out of it. It is better to listen to a strong, distorted mess, than to a weak and uninspiring one. Interestingly, these days i "remaster" those early tracks and they start to sound good enough, all because of initial balance between instruments. So yeah

Why not focus on songwriting and sound design until you're confident in them and then learn mastering?

Right. Balance is the key. If you mix your track very well, you don't need mastering, sometimes, just limiter for the required loudness
You will hear this again many times in the future, but yes, compare your track to commercial tracks. I know, it is hard. You listen to your favorite tune, it sounds so good, pure perfection, and then you switch to your "disappointment". It is hard, but it is crucial

Lastly, I would be wary about taking advice about DnB from people that don't listen to the genre. I think you posted a song before (it might have been someone else) and Wagtunes commented saying he didn't like the beat, so you changed it but you ended up changing it from DnB to something else.

Exactly. I remember this moment too. It felt like you betrayed your original idea. Stick to it. You write your music for yourself in the first place, because it's what YOU like. Later you'll find people who like your music too because of its original idea
Do your research, dude, make this mix sound great

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Edit: I see you posted a new version in the time it took me to write this... So this is based on the first version.

First thoughts: hats are buried, vocals sound somewhat muddy and there's big issues with the frequency spread. Snare seems to be lacking the smack that is required for the genre (it's the single most important element IMO, that driving snare smack on the off beat). The mix definitely needs work.

If it were up to me, I'd ditch the vocals for most/all of the track and focus on getting the drums n bass to the forefront, rather than the synths. Nomen est omen and all that. But I like the old skool stuff a lot more than the modern stuff, so I appreciate some of that is personal preference. I didn't really feel like the vocals were gelling with the track much of the time. The "oh ohs" seem fine, but there's simply too much going on at once IMO, and not in the right places.

What I personally like about DnB is the barrage of drums that make it sound like the electronic version of punk to me. Fast, in your face and just that bit grimy and dirty/DIY in sound. I know that's not where the newer stuff is headed, but I actually think that is a mistake as a lot of the synth heavy stuff is lacking the heart and soul of the genre as a result. But I also appreciate that tastes are not universal.

Overall, I'm missing breakbeats, hats that are actually driving the track, snare smack and a clearly defined bass part. The synths are masking the bass, and the hats are just not very DnB-esque being buried the way they are. I think thinning out the synths a bit would probably help. While it's not really my cup of tea - and I *really* like older DnB - I suspect that cleaning up the mix will go a long way to improving the track. But I'd also look at the arrangement and try and bring the core elements of the genre more to the fore.

I get what you're saying, but I think that there are some trappings of old school that needn't be indulged to qualify as d 'n' b. Breakbeats are a great example, as they can easily make a track sound stodgy. But it can be done right, if attention is paid to variation, dynamics etc. And often stripping much of the intricacies away will allow for a much better drive/forward-motion (Check 2:33):



------------

I think there is so much potential in this track. At first i was really put off with how the vocal track is phrasally at odds with the piece, but it also kinda works for that very reason.

Much of what I might have said (and a lot more) regarding the mix, has been echoed in others' comments. This thing needs to be stripped-back, and rebuilt...with some breathing space.

Ultimately mastering is only supposed to add the last bit of polish to an already good mix. But it can't perform miracles. If you feed a really bad sound into it, you're likely to get most of it back, albeit much louder

I don't have too much experience with Ozone (I also only have 'Elements'). However, one tip i would offer is to not use it for mastering; at least, not at the current stage of your development. Just use the mastering assistant to evaluate your mix. If the assistant comes back with anything other than a slight shaving off the bottom-end, or a suggest for a small boost somewhere else, then refuse the modifications, disable Ozone, and go back to the mix to see if you can sort the problem there.
Better to realise that you've stacked too much bass energy between various competing instruments, causing muddiness, and learn about eq-sculpting, making space etc. than to just cut the bass re: Ozone's recommendations. If you just cut the bass overage in the master you won't get rid of the muddiness and lack of separation, you'll just make it quieter

Anyway, you are definitely making progress.

[Zeekuh]

First of all thanks for all the comments and feedback, i really appreciate it, i dont really have anyone to get feedback from irl so this is my one source. I will try to learn to filter comments more after what is relevant to listen to, aswell as i will try to stick to what i want while taking others oppinions in consideration, im still very new to all this so i make wrong judgments sometimes, you live - you learn.

I think you are right i should get the mixing and composition part right first, so i will use Landr for now untill i feel more confident and have more time to look over mastering.

I have listened alot on other tracks for reference like you said Jopmanajop, but i felt kinda stuck now and hadnt gotten any feedback in a while so im glad i could come here for some great feedback.

Im mixing on headphones mostly, got a pair of KRK Rokit 5 g3 but i live in an appartment so i cant really crank the volume to answer previous quote.

I have done some changes:
- Overlooked whole mix and got rid of the distortion (i hope)
- Drums - Added more saturation and redid eq, added more punch to snare and stereo enhanced it like i got tips to do, think it sounds a bit more punchy now. Also added reverb
- Modified vocal chop melody Also increased reverb and redid eq a bit
- Panned hihats with automation to give some more stereo width as suggested.
- Panned vocal chops with automation for more stereo width.
- Re equed the saw chords to give more space for hihats and break. They got less precense now but i think it sounds better.
- Mastered with Landr

There is still alot going on, but i think it works, what do guys think, is it still to busy?

https://soundcloud.com/zeekuh/out-of-it

[No_Use]

Sounds a lot better than the previous version imo (more punchy, more 'airy).

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I think you are right i should get the mixing and composition part right first, so i will use Landr for now untill i feel more confident and have more time to look over mastering.

Please consider not paying for your tracks to be mastered. The mix is the biggest factor in getting a great end result. The mastering is just the icing on the cake. Mastering a badly-mixed track is like getting someone to paint your roof before you've fixed the holes.

You might end up with a slightly better sound than you had, going in, but mastering won't make your tracks slam unless they have a strong foundation, and you'll never learn how to get that foundation if you're always looking for some process to paper over the cracks

A good (read: ethical), living, breathing mastering engineer would turn down your work, and send you back to your studio to action certain recommendations. An automated site will just apply a averaged-out algorithm, and take your money for the trouble. In that case, you're better just saving your money and applying Ozone's assistants recommendations

[thecontrolcentre]

^^ This mix is a great improvement ... but it still sounds too busy at times. I think the vocal could be louder, and the kick a bit lower. I'd also reccomend leaving the "mastering" until you at least have a final mix. It takes years to learn this stuff.

+1 to what el-bo said

[Hink]

ty to the KvR regs and everyone else that have stepped up with comments the op can use...you guys rock

[sjm]

It's a vast improvement. Overall it sounds a lot less muddy to my ears.

Minor observation: I think your kick is a bit loud in the build up after you've applied the filter sweep and before everything climaxes.