the music of "Hero" the film

[Lunch Money]

<shrug>

Maybe I used the wrong terms--

I have no f-ing clue about any sort of symbolism with the water, either. But I understood it as a stylistic element that was beautifully done. The thing is... in that style of film, "realistic" is never the point. It's meant to be a fable, and the unrealistic approach is a conscious part of the core of that aesthetic. I like Bruce Lee as much as the next guy, but those were B-movies, both literally and by comparison.

I admit... my post was uneccesarily harsh, and although obviously the things I said are directly applicable to you, I didn't have "you" as the intended target, ya know?

Think about it this way... you know how when you have a band that you really really love-- and although part of you is happy that not everyone in the world knows about them and you don't hear them on the radio 24/7, a secret part of you is always a bit like, "How could you not f---ing like them???"

I guess that's the sort of feeling I was trying to describe. I didn't mean that people who don't like it are any less cultural for REAL, just that it's the kind of thing I think to myself as a knee jerk reaction. It's not until afterwards that I myself have to realize that everyone has their own sense of taste and style, and *I'm* just as guilty as the "laughing crowd" from the theatre of closing my mind.

Greg

[The Chase]

I have no f-ing clue about any sort of symbolism with the water, either. But I understood it as a stylistic element that was beautifully done. The thing is... in that style of film, "realistic" is never the point. It's meant to be a fable, and the unrealistic approach is a conscious part of the core of that aesthetic.

I understand that, and thats why i loved Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but what i really meant by my original reply is that not only has Crouching Tiger already been made, but Hero took it a bit too far.

I admit... my post was uneccesarily harsh, and although obviously the things I said are directly applicable to you, I didn't have "you" as the intended target, ya know?

Think about it this way... you know how when you have a band that you really really love-- and although part of you is happy that not everyone in the world knows about them and you don't hear them on the radio 24/7, a secret part of you is always a bit like, "How could you not f---ing like them???"

I guess that's the sort of feeling I was trying to describe. I didn't mean that people who don't like it are any less cultural for REAL, just that it's the kind of thing I think to myself as a knee jerk reaction. It's not until afterwards that I myself have to realize that everyone has their own sense of taste and style, and *I'm* just as guilty as the "laughing crowd" from the theatre of closing my mind.Greg

I understand. It's cool don't worry about it.

[WillieJenkins]

sorry Chase, but I gotta agree with the other posters, this kind of stuff wouldn't seem 'over-the-top' to anyone who's really been a student of kung-fu flicks, and how the Chinese approach cinema

Not discounting your opinion of course, I respect you think it's over the top

[Shane Sanders]

Damn, shane, did you help make that movie or something? you seem to be defending it with your life.

it pisses me off when someone says they don't like something, and then other people play the "oh, that's just because youre closed minded" game. Excuse me for not knowing that two men bouncing off of water on their swords and then playing pong with a single water droplet (note that they werent jumping then. they were just standing on the water) represented pure Rimbaudian symbolism. I love the older martial arts movies, particularly Bruce Lee flicks. They represented things like "pure Rimbaudian symbolism" as well without ridiculously fake fighting scenes.

I could be wrong, but I think you may have made a type of cumulative reply here and it landed on me. It happens a lot at KVR: people come back to a thread that has evolved a bit and every person in that thread becomes the Borg hive-mind in need of a good dose of insect spray. No biggie.

But for what it's worth, you can always read my posts and assume there's no attack in it. I'm very careful with what I say and rarely bother with any sort of defense of anything except the occasional sheild-brandishing when someone says something patently false or illogical about my religious beliefs. My thoughts on the film were a foil to your thoughts, so I hope you'll re-read my post and see there really wasn't anything there except another opinion on a matter that won't mean a whole lot tomorrow, or anytime thereafter. Your post prompted my post in a conversational way. Cool?

And, too, I think it shouldn't be so easy to downgrade people for having an education or special knowledge about a thing and applying it. It works both ways, this mutual respect thing... ya?

[VanLichten]

I loved this film also - it is simply visually the most beautiful film i ever saw and the story is allegoric, narrated well and filled with many surprises. It is a chinese film, not Hollywood, however, and for those who claim that its a "Tiger&Dragon" copy: Films with flying kung-fu- heroes have a very long tradition in Asia, this ultimately goes back to the chinese opera which played folk legends about daoist or buddhist martial artist mixed with acrobatic (and nonsense) kung-fu moves.

Certainly one of the best films ever made.

Richard

[jens]

http://www.fact-index.com/w/wu/wuxia_film.html

This genre is characterized by its fantasy component. The heroes in the movie practice martial arts to reach a state where they attain any number of superhuman powers collectively known as shengong (神功), so that they can, among other things:


float in air
scale a cliff or wall
have lightning fast movement
release mystical inner energy (qi) in a form of a beam
paralyze or kill their opponents by hitting their acupressure points with a finger

[jens]

The audience can readily accept the concept of the Force in the Star Wars series or the superpowers of mutants in X-Men or an alien in Superman. However, the same Western audience may have trouble accepting the wuxia type of fantasy because the wuxia heroes are supposed to be regular people with superpowers.

[MrM]

Hero is pure art.

I really liked it. NO hollywood style effects, so people might not undersstand it.
But to laugh at something you don't understand is understandable... Albeit very disrespectful also!

[foosnark]

It was a complete mix of Crouching Tiger-Hidden Dragon, The Usual Suspects, and Romeo and Juliet

I'm not sure where you got Romeo and Juliet out of it... but it was an homage to Akira Kurasawa's Rashomon (i.e. the story of the same events being told by various people, some of whom were motivated to lie).

Plotwise it wasn't the most amazing thing ever. The fight scenes, well, were either very fantastical or (in some cases) plainly ridiculous depending on how you wanted to see them. But overall the movie was absolutely gorgeous and the soundtrack was too. (I've always liked Tan Dun's stuff though...)

[Shane Sanders]

http://www.fact-index.com/w/wu/wuxia_film.html

This genre is characterized by its fantasy component. The heroes in the movie practice martial arts to reach a state where they attain any number of superhuman powers collectively known as shengong (神功), so that they can, among other things:


float in air
scale a cliff or wall
have lightning fast movement
release mystical inner energy (qi) in a form of a beam
paralyze or kill their opponents by hitting their acupressure points with a finger

Cool link. Here is another that has been fascinating for me.

http://www.heroic-cinema.com/eric/xia.html

[Doug Nelson]

The extent of Tarantino's participation was he traded permission to use his name in exchange for restoring 20 minutes that Miramax cut.

And as for the fantastical elements, it's simply a different visual language. We don't bat an eyelash at a gunfighter shooting through a rope from 50 yards away, or having a hero that can run faster than a fireball explosion. The scenes in CTHD and Hero are simply made for people that grew up with different visual myths.

Here's a tidbit from imdb.com "In the flashbacks, the characters' costumes go from red (imagination) to blue (perceived reality) to white (truth). In the final flashback, the costumes are green (enlightenment/peace)." That might not mean much for a lot of us, but it's no different than red representing anger and blue representing peace.

[Lunatique]

The film is directed by Zhang Yi-Mo, one of the most respected and critically acclaimed directors internationally. I guess there aren't any serious film buffs here at KVR.

The music in the film sounds exactly the same as in CTHD--it's composed by the same guy, and he's an one trick pony.

Both Hero and CTHD were both severely criticized by the Chinese audience in general, but well-received in the west. Hero is especially blasted by the Chinese for being a "visually beautiful piece of garbage."

I personally have mixed feelings about both films. Neither are the best martial arts films ever made--not even close. Neither are really good films as well--both have glaring problems with pacing, storytelling, characterization..etc. But, both are honest and passionate efforst by critically acclaimed directors of international fame.

[Jeremy_NSL]

I saw the asian release of this about 1 year ago... I was in shock at its sheer beauty - and I loved the story. No complaints whatsoever about this one, only that it ended.

Maybe I missed this in the thread, but anyone know if they changed the ending in the US release? I heard the distributers were thinking of 'americanizing' it, but I'm not sure whether it happened or not.

[Shane Sanders]

The film is directed by Zhang Yi-Mo, one of the most respected and critically acclaimed directors internationally. I guess there aren't any serious film buffs here at KVR.

I have a degree in experimental film, having spent many hours analyzing films from many cultures. Nobody can absorb it all, especially when the films aren't released in our respective countries.

The music in the film sounds exactly the same as in CTHD--it's composed by the same guy, and he's an one trick pony.

It's a nice pony.

Both Hero and CTHD were both severely criticized by the Chinese audience in general, but well-received in the west. Hero is especially blasted by the Chinese for being a "visually beautiful piece of garbage."

As for me, I could care less what an audience says. I can make up my own mind about what I experience. Being visually beautiful is fully 1/2 of what a film can accomplish. The other half is the audio component, such as music, foley work, and dialogue. And out of those two main areas arises a third component that lives only in the minds of those that experience the work.

I personally have mixed feelings about both films. Neither are the best martial arts films ever made--not even close. Neither are really good films as well--both have glaring problems with pacing, storytelling, characterization..etc. But, both are honest and passionate efforst by critically acclaimed directors of international fame.

Is there a "best"?

[Lunch Money]

Only subjectively.

For example, my favourite martial arts movie and therefore the "best" one is an old Jackie Chan film that I can't even remember the name of and therefore can't track down.

Greg