Airwindows Verbity: Mac/Windows/Linux AU/VST

[Obsolete462444]

Are you consciously aware of the fact that you are spamming this thread with irrelevant walls of text?

[crickey13]

Are you consciously aware of the fact that you are spamming this thread with irrelevant walls of text?

I'm kind of surprised he hasn't been banned yet.

[monomox]

never mind

[cprompt]

Are you consciously aware of the fact that you are spamming this thread with irrelevant walls of text?

At the risk of poking the hornet's nest, I'm not sure what KingOzRecord said was anything bad or negative as such. I'm not a DSP developer, but I am a developer with a background in assembler, C, C++ and C# so I'm not a complete numpty!

Airwindows is still about at the synthedit level

I think what he means here is that a synthedit plugin is made up of small components that hang together to form a more complex plugin. You can hand-code them yourself or use prebuilt components. Saying that Airwindows is about the synthedit level is saying that each of Chris' plugins are small, lightweight and a single component that does one thing very well. You can string them together to make something more complicated but each plugin is akin to a Synthedit component.

most people don't understand that you need a firm grasp of math to be able to make these things.

DSP is math, period.

And for the record Juce is just a more impressive synthedit, people using Juce often don't know anything but how to copy and paste.

Synthedit, Flowstone, Juce and iPlug are frameworks that take the boring tedium (forgive the tautology) from creating plugins. The bit of code that actually runs your math (ie the DSP) is only a small part of the plugin, you have to register it, tell the plugin host (your DAW) all about the plugin, what it can receive, what it will send back, how to load and save its state and any UI controls... and that's before we even start on the GUI! These frameworks provide, well, a framework that you can stick your DSP code in and have the framework do all the boring stuff.

However, the danger is is simply you can grab some DSP code off the internet, paste it in to the framework, build it and voila, a plugin, even though it might be poor, inefficient code. Building your DSP code from scratch by hand (as Chris definitely does) leads to tight, optimised, efficient code.

that anyone using synthedit is basically coding everything from scratch (due to the fact that there's basically no synthedit example code bases available)

I believe Synthedit comes with prewritten components, like a compressor, an eq etc, but that are a bit crappy, so if Synthedit is your framework of choice, you have to write the components yourself in C++.

In the case of flowstone, I guess there's plenty available in the way of examples but they're all too in-efficient to be used commercially.

In other words, don't copy-and-paste random bits of DSP you find on the internet as they're just poorly written!

As you can see in the math above, Neither Airwindows or Myself requires examples in the sense of some 3d GUI, what we do is employ math, the more optimized and the faster the better.

I can't speak for KingOzRecord's plugins, but I know that Chris's plugins do exactly what they say on the tin are barely take up any CPU - a sign of well-written DSP maths.

Anyhoo, just my take on what was said.

[Obsolete462444]

This is a perfectly legit discussion for DSP and Plug-In Development subforum

[kingozrecords]

Hmm, a lot said but plainly if you post about an effect released people will reply and post about it either way. This is the place for talk regarding effects. It'd be nice if I got more reviews.

[jinxtigr]

When I read posts like those of kingozrecords, saying things like "Trying to suggest that you can make a pinto into a thoroughbred sports car is like making lead from gold, this is a good plug-in but it still needs hybrid mid side to get rid of the harmonic distortion and the distortion in general, and furthermore it could use a built in mono to stereo option, or else you're basically using any old reverb, and you end up using an extra 5% cpu anyways to be adding the extra functionality"

What I see is somebody like myself when I was around 20 or 30

I could argue about mid/side not helping a literally dual-mono plugin, or that it doesn't do anything about harmonic distortion, or that to my ears it's not like a Ford Pinto (sadly, now my previous Householder matrix feedback reverbs sound like that to me), or any number of things.

But instead, I will see that younger-me-like person so boldly posting stuff and having strong opinions and such a great urge to be doing amazing things, and I will wish that person well, and say… see ya in ten years. Because in my experience, you're either going to flame out or become one of the real-deal folks who can really bring something worthwhile to the table. My first DSP wasn't plugins, it was programs in 'REALbasic' that could only render stuff out slowly, and I was hacking away in these REALbasic programs to invent the best dither in the world and revolutionize digital audio. I had some of my work rejected most unceremoniously, and noted mastering engineer Dave Collins said that one of my dithers was the strangest and worst dither he'd ever heard in all his life

That was nearly twenty years ago. I got better, 'cos I didn't give up, and here I am.

Don't give up, kingozrecords. But do take a tip from most likely an older person (I'm 53): you may find you get to a stage where you're gentler with your criticisms… and strangely, when that happens that's also around the time your criticisms start getting more legitimate and less easily debunked. It's worth sticking around until you get to that stage.

The people who start out full of arrogance, once they let go of it, are also the people who find novel and original contributions to make. Patience.

[rafa1981]

"optimized math"

Code: Select all

L = L+((L+R*0.5)*-1);
R = R+(((L+R*0.5)*-1)*-1);

I don't need to say more.

[Unaspected]

Coding a good sounding, original algorithmic reverb is far from a trivial task.