Finally joining in on some WUP hate.

[jens]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

I think it's a psychological issue for the most part of it. People have a desire to have always the latest and greatest, and due to WUP they would have to pay to get that with Waves. It's basically insecurity (not having access to the assumingly required tools) and the fear of being left-behind.

Personally I think it's a fantastic business model, because it seperates in a smooth way between professionals and non-professional. A professional will most likely have no issue with paying for WUP at all, so he pays more for basically the same product. As a consequence, Waves can offer it for very low prices to the non-professionals.

I regularly use V9-V12 plugins side by side without any issues whatsoever.

[0degree]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

I think it's a psychological issue for the most part of it. People have a desire to have always the latest and greatest, and due to WUP they would have to pay to get that with Waves. It's basically insecurity (not having access to the assumingly required tools) and the fear of being left-behind.

Personally I think it's a fantastic business model, because it seperates in a smooth way between professionals and non-professional. A professional will most likely have no issue with paying for WUP at all, so he pays more for basically the same product. As a consequence, Waves can offer it for very low prices to the non-professionals.

I regularly use V9-V12 plugins side by side without any issues whatsoever.

LOL, that's fantastic business model ... for Waves

[ferez21]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

I think it's a psychological issue for the most part of it. People have a desire to have always the latest and greatest, and due to WUP they would have to pay to get that with Waves.

But almost any developer asks you to pay for updated versions in one way or another, whether its simply having to buy the new versions, paying for upgrades individually, or paying for a WUP kind of thing like Waves and Bitwig.

Good point about professionals vs hobbyists, never thought of that and it makes a lot of sense.

[0degree]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

I think it's a psychological issue for the most part of it. People have a desire to have always the latest and greatest, and due to WUP they would have to pay to get that with Waves.

But almost any developer asks you to pay for updated versions in one way or another, whether its simply having to buy the new versions, paying for upgrades individually, or paying for a WUP kind of thing like Waves and Bitwig.

Good point about professionals vs hobbyists, never thought of that and it makes a lot of sense.

The difference is the other devs actually offer you something when you upgrade instead of just numerical value increase for the version that happens around Apple OS upgrade. There's no way to justify it, sorry

[Ploki]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

I think it's a psychological issue for the most part of it. People have a desire to have always the latest and greatest, and due to WUP they would have to pay to get that with Waves. It's basically insecurity (not having access to the assumingly required tools) and the fear of being left-behind.

Personally I think it's a fantastic business model, because it seperates in a smooth way between professionals and non-professional. A professional will most likely have no issue with paying for WUP at all, so he pays more for basically the same product. As a consequence, Waves can offer it for very low prices to the non-professionals.

I regularly use V9-V12 plugins side by side without any issues whatsoever.

Little bit of this little bit of that.
They're one of the rare devs that charge for maintenance/hygiene updates, such as OS compliance, or scalable GUI, or i.e. apple silicon builds. Most devs did those for free.
Then, they only offer ONE ACTIVATION for plugin license. I don't know if you need to pay WUP for TWO licenses, but given how they do things i'll assume that you do.

I'd argue that what makes something pro or not today is about support. 24/7 developer access for technical issues? A pro needs that. it's a session, something doesn't work, you need it to work now. You should get experimental builds that fix your problem NOW.
If you do some music on the weekends you can wait a week or two for that.

[jens]

I'd argue that what makes something pro or not today is about support. 24/7 developer access for technical issues? A pro needs that. it's a session, something doesn't work, you need it to work now. You should get experimental builds that fix your problem NOW.
If you do some music on the weekends you can wait a week or two for that.

Well, that was more or less my point.

Edit: minus the experimental builds perhaps - that's asking a bit much, no?

[ferez21]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

I think it's a psychological issue for the most part of it. People have a desire to have always the latest and greatest, and due to WUP they would have to pay to get that with Waves.

But almost any developer asks you to pay for updated versions in one way or another, whether its simply having to buy the new versions, paying for upgrades individually, or paying for a WUP kind of thing like Waves and Bitwig.

Good point about professionals vs hobbyists, never thought of that and it makes a lot of sense.

The difference is the other devs actually offer you something when you upgrade instead of just numerical value increase for the version that happens around Apple OS upgrade. There's no way to justify it, sorry

So don't pay and don't upgrade if there's no change the plugins you initially bought still work.
Since no one forces you to get WUP, i think the point is more that maybe some plugins feel a bit outdated and should be finally updated, so it's not directly the WUP because the WUP is not mandatory.

Honestly, maybe this WUP thing is actually good because it's indirectly serves as an anti-GAS mechanism for us.

[jens]

But almost any developer asks you to pay for updated versions in one way or another, whether its simply having to buy the new versions, paying for upgrades individually, or paying for a WUP kind of thing like Waves and Bitwig.

Well, many only - if at all - ask money for actual new features and/or improvements, of which Waves tend to offer relatively few. But even when it comes to that they are by far not the worst or most greedy (I think that crown would have to got to Wavearts).

[jens]

LOL, that's fantastic business model ... for Waves

Au contraire my point was that it is a great business model for everyone.

Within several years I never paid even just a single cent for WUP and all my Waves plugins work without any problem on my most recent machine which isn't even three months old right now.

But I can state that over and over again - and I did and I will - and yet people will keep complaining that they had to pay for WUP - hence my comment that it is mainly a psychological issue.

[jens]

So don't pay and don't upgrade if there's no change the plugins you initially bought still work.
Since no one forces you to get WUP, i think the point is more that maybe some plugins feel a bit outdated and should be finally updated, so it's not directly the WUP because the WUP is not

Exactly this.

[0degree]

LOL, that's fantastic business model ... for Waves

Au contraire my point was that it is a great business model for everyone.

Within several years I never paid even just a single cent for WUP and all my Waves plugins work without any problem on my most recent machine which isn't even three months old right now.

But I can state that over and over again - and I did and I will - and yet people will keep complaining that they had to pay for WUP - hence my comment that it is mainly a psychological issue.

It's not psychological, it's a practical issue - see my post on the page before and OP's first post and that's EXACTLY why people are complaining. If this wasn't an issue nobody would ever write about this and you're trying to justify this with some pseudo psychological analysis here. I don't see people complaining about Ableton's, PSP's or D16 plugins in that regard, do you?

[noiseboyuk]

I'm genuinely trying to understand, why does WUP triggers so many people?

There are many companies that make you pay for
major updates for their plugins, what's the difference? There are companies whose plugins are NFR from the get-go, there are companies yhat charge $50 transfer fee per plug, and there are companies that expect you to buy a new plugin every time they add a single feature and decide to call it a new version.

Given that their plugins have generally good reputation, and most of the time they are pretty cheap (aside of the initial launching price, but we all know it gets cut by 80% after a few months), why is it so infuriating for people to pay for upgrades?

I have the Gold bundle i bought a decade ago, never renewed WUP and they are all working fine and were updated to VST3 regardless of the WUP.

It's a good question. I know one version had resizeable GUIs, but I don't care very much about that. Plugins works without the WUP - why ever do it?

Well actually I did do one round. I was so bored and fed up having different licenses on different versions, needing the offline installer for some and Waves Central buggering it all up, I did get everything aligned on v10 simply to make life easier. Kinda stupid of me in retrospect. You just have to accept that you need to be ultra careful with Waves Central, don't update or install ANYTHING unless you really need to, and accept you will need their clunky offline installer for older versions.

I don't really need anything else from Waves, so I just leave the damn thing alone now. Many of the plugins are great and great value, not throwing any toys out of any prams. It just wears one down a bit.

[PieBerger]

But almost any developer asks you to pay for updated versions in one way or another, whether its simply having to buy the new versions, paying for upgrades individually, or paying for a WUP kind of thing like Waves and Bitwig.

Other devs actually update their software though, they don't typically charge for OS maintenance, bug fixes and minor UI updates. Compare u-he, Synapse Audio, Valhalla, Klanghelm to name but a few to Waves. OS and bug fixes free as standard, with additional features all added for free in point releases over the years. When they do ask users to open their wallets they actually add new features to their products.

Bitwig push x.x.X updates to users for free, even after their update plans have expired.

[KenjiDeVries]

Never bought WUP, all plugins work, some automatically get a new WUP through certain sale actions. No problem with it, it's not mandatory, I never missed a license upgrade. Quite the opposit, bought something during tax day sale and noticed the waves central told me there are license upgrades available even though the WUP for them already ended, but they were released during it being active. I'd take a look at the changelog anyways before buying in and if it's not worth, then don't buy.

[jens]

LOL, that's fantastic business model ... for Waves

Au contraire my point was that it is a great business model for everyone.

Within several years I never paid even just a single cent for WUP and all my Waves plugins work without any problem on my most recent machine which isn't even three months old right now.

But I can state that over and over again - and I did and I will - and yet people will keep complaining that they had to pay for WUP - hence my comment that it is mainly a psychological issue.

It's not psychological, it's a practical issue - see my post on the page before and OP's first post and that's EXACTLY why people are complaining. If this wasn't an issue nobody would ever write about this and you're trying to justify this with some pseudo psychological analysis here. I don't see people complaining about Ableton's, PSP's or D16 plugins in that regard, do you?

Oh believe me, I read it, I read it - the OP has at least some point, I understand it and I also think it's somewhat annoying - but especially your post I find highly irrational, to say the least - let us look at it again:

Maybe it's time Waves actually acknowledges and addresses the problem? For me the idea of paying for the same plugins over and over again is ridiculous given the "new" versions usually bring nothing except the number increase

To which my - and those of others - reply was: "but you do NOT have to pay again! You can just keep using your plugins witthout paying for WUP", to which you then replíed with - but look at my post - so yes, let us look at it agaIn:

Maybe it's time Waves actually acknowledges and addresses the problem? For me the idea of paying for the same plugins over and over again is ridiculous given the "new" versions usually bring nothing except the number increase

"But you do NOT have to pay anything at all! You can keep using your plugins without paying for WUP. It's just a psychological issue, that you feel you need to update in order to stay current, even though there is no need for this."

"No, it's not a psychological issue at all! It's a very practical one! For me the idea of paying for the same plugins over and over again is ridiculous given the "new" versions usually bring nothing except the number increase."

*Sigh*

I give up.... on humans.