KVR Audio

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:23 pm

sQeetz wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:48 am Sometimes I start a song in Reason. But it gets confusing a couple of tracks in. I can't imagine doing a whole song in Reason alone to be honest.
I'm also a late adaptor. Reason 10 was my first dibble into the eco system
It's just not.... intuitive in any way
As a plugin it's unbeatable. But as a DAW it is IMHO hopelessly confusing.
Probably the reason they are trying to market it as such.

What is it exactly that you find confusing? Rack? Sequencer? Mixer?

I agree it can get a bit unwieldy as soon as the project gets bigger, but that can be somewhat mitigated by colouring tracks in sequencer and keeping tracks in separate columns in mixer. Sure, that's not ideal but people in FL had to do this for decades to maintain any semblence of organisation, and I personally always found Reason much more logical than FL.

I still think this is one of my best tracks - which doesn't say much, but still... - and what's in this video took perhaps 2-3h (that's just early WIP, full track is almost 8 minutes long):

anttimaatteri · Post by **anttimaatteri** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:31 pm

i left reason, cause the realm of myth, mysts, superstition, prejudice, gossips and stupidity is not only easy living, its also far more lucrative.
;D

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:02 pm

antic604 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:23 pmWhat is it exactly that you find confusing? Rack? Sequencer? Mixer?

It's a combination of everything together.
For example:
You re-arange tracks in the mixer, it does not translate to the sequencer.

In the Rack I often select the track instead of the instrument itself and a new track in the sequencer gets created which does nothing when pressing keys on the MIDI keyboard. This one needs to be deleted in order to keep things tidy.
Just to name 2 weirdnesses

It's infuriating sometimes (to me at least, I'm dumb as that)

Nice song btw

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:06 pm

antic604 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:23 pm What is it exactly that you find confusing? Rack? Sequencer? Mixer?

I recently got Reason Intro for free. I wouldn't say it's confusing. Rather alienating. It does things fundamentally different than any other DAW I ever used. Which is probably good for some, but, pretty frustrating for people like me who are used to a different workflow.

It was fun to play with the included instruments for a few hours or so though.

Then I realized once again that what I have in the VST world is so much better.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:28 pm

sQeetz wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:02 pm
antic604 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:23 pmWhat is it exactly that you find confusing? Rack? Sequencer? Mixer?
It's a combination of everything together.
For example:
You re-arange tracks in the mixer, it does not translate to the sequencer.

In the Rack I often select the track instead of the instrument itself and a new track in the sequencer gets created which does nothing when pressing keys on the MIDI keyboard. This one needs to be deleted in order to keep things tidy.
Just to name 2 weirdnesses It's infuriating sometimes (to me at least, I'm dumb as that)

True, but isn't this the case with all DAWs? All have their quirks that once you know how to avoid / work around them, they no longer bother you. The two issues you're describing result from the original concept of Reason as a "virtual hardware studio". Sequencer is a collection of tracks, that send control information - MIDI, patterns, automation/CV - to different devices, therefore you might have a track for mixer channel, for the instrument(s), for each of audio effects, etc. In most DAWs one track holds everything relating to that particular sound, but in Reason the idea is of hardware sequencers driving each device. Likewise, in real studio moving around devices in your hardware rack won't change their order and routing in mixing console (although I believe there is a right-click manu item that reorders things).

But I agree - a lot of it can be frustrating, especially until you know what's going on and why. And even then it's sometimes infuriating still, because after all we're working on a computer and not in hardware studio.

In the end there's no use fighting a DAW you find frustrating and unintuitive.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:35 pm

I left it @ v 2.5. I was using Cubase by then. I don't care for the GUI at all. I had no idea what I was doing when I bought it.

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:41 pm

antic604 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:28 pmIn the end there's no use fighting a DAW you find frustrating and unintuitive.

Exactly. And don't get me wrong, I actually quite like making mockups in Reason. And I'll keep it updated as long as they offer a perpetual license.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:21 pm

jancivil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:35 pm I had no idea what I was doing when I bought it.

i think i musta been high when i bought it...

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:30 pm

played a bit with it and can't see any frustration, except the soloing in the sequencer, soloing a track unfortunately mutes those tracks too which contain only automatons related data(pattern selectors etc.) so Cubase like "solo defeat" is missing from R ... as I see soloing can be solved only from the rack/mixer only (by soloing the group tracks)

pretty similar to AL/BWS don't have to overthink it, scenes = blocks (just in Reason blocks have their own layers), racks are Combinators2 ... done

in the video, I've created a new block with a new drum pattern and a bass layer, easy-peasy, I only miss a bit better piano roll (chord auditioning) and folder tracks but otherwise, Reason is the best

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:32 pm

vurt wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:21 pm
jancivil wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:35 pm I had no idea what I was doing when I bought it.
i think i musta been high when i bought it...

was feeling no pain anyway
(methadone daze)

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:41 am

xbitz wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:18 pm quite funny that even Renoise has better piano roll

https://github.com/ryrun/com.dufte.Simp ... /readme.md hello Bitwig

F* Bitwig that piece of crap.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:41 am

xbitz wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:30 pmplayed a bit with it and can't see any frustration, except the soloing in the sequencer...

As I explained, you need to look at it from the overarching design perspective of Reason. By soloing (or muting) a sequencer track you are controlling just the "device" that sequences a device in rack. So for example you're soloing the MIDI notes and automation being sent to particular device. If for example that device is an instrument and has few effects attached, but those effects are controlled by different MIDI sequencer track or automation track, those controls won't take effect until they're soloed as well, because they're otherwise muted.

In other words - soloing/muting in sequencer affects the control signal, whereas soloing/muting in rack actually controls the devices. So if you have bass sidechained to a kick('s audio), then soloing the bass in sequencer will disable the sidechain (the kick device won't be triggered), but soloing it in rack won't (the kick will still play, but you won't hear it).

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:19 am

antic604 wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:41 am

That's the kind of shit I'm talking about!

I just hate working with it. As a plugin it is great, though...

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:30 am

antic604 wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:41 am
xbitz wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:30 pmplayed a bit with it and can't see any frustration, except the soloing in the sequencer...
As I explained, you need to look at it from the overarching design perspective of Reason. By soloing (or muting) a sequencer track you are controlling just the "device" that sequences a device in rack. So for example you're soloing the MIDI notes and automation being sent to particular device. If for example that device is an instrument and has few effects attached, but those effects are controlled by different MIDI sequencer track or automation track, those controls won't take effect until they're soloed as well, because they're otherwise muted.

In other words - soloing/muting in sequencer affects the control signal, whereas soloing/muting in rack actually controls the devices. So if you have bass sidechained to a kick('s audio), then soloing the bass in sequencer will disable the sidechain (the kick device won't be triggered), but soloing it in rack won't (the kick will still play, but you won't hear it).

Cubase works similarly (from MIDI track) just can see the whole signal path

soloing the source MIDI tracks solos the instruments too, effect tracks(those tracks which controls/triggers etc.) fx devices can be solo defeated 'You can also click and hold Solo to activate solo defeat. In this mode the channel is not muted when you solo another channel. Alt-click again to deactivate solo defeat' https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ute_c.html this is why I've started to use R on this way ... routing of C is much more rigid compared to R so not complaining it was just a remark

ps. if you would like to see the creative usage of Reason blocks worth checking the JB — Bajo Caida project from the demo page https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/ ... demo-songs pretty cool

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:52 am

sQeetz wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:19 am
antic604 wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 5:41 am
That's the kind of shit I'm talking about!
I just hate working with it. As a plugin it is great, though...

the plugin doesn't support VSTs so can't use AL snapshot-like solution just with Reason devices

in AL

in Reason

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... v-utility/
works similarly as the macros of Alchemy in Logic

Why You Left Reason ?