Side Chain Compressor

[pixel85]

Cubase native compressor. I can do all "pumping" tasks with it no problem.
For stuff like pads, non-critical elements I'm using often Waves Pumper

iZotope Neutron or Waves F6 for multiband duties. I would use more often native Frequency EQ in Cubase but it has only one type of shelf curve and workflow is not that great because of "archaic" GUI.

Isn't that their updated GUI too ?

It depends if you mean GUI rework or not as an update. It was updated to have parameters needed for dynamic EQ, but it wasn't reworked.
I prefer GUI like Neutron or Pro-Q. I wish Steinberg would copy that GUI/workflow + add more curves (even Channel EQ has more curves, and I'm pretty sure that Frequency is just a Channel EQ in a different GUI).

Ps. somehow I don't like the 'sound' of Frequency. I'm curious if it's just an illusion because of that GUI

[LeVzi]

Cubase native compressor. I can do all "pumping" tasks with it no problem.
For stuff like pads, non-critical elements I'm using often Waves Pumper

iZotope Neutron or Waves F6 for multiband duties. I would use more often native Frequency EQ in Cubase but it has only one type of shelf curve and workflow is not that great because of "archaic" GUI.

Isn't that their updated GUI too ?

It depends if you mean GUI rework or not as an update. It was updated to have parameters needed for dynamic EQ, but it wasn't reworked.
I prefer GUI like Neutron or Pro-Q. I wish Steinberg would copy that GUI/workflow + add more curves (even Channel EQ has more curves, and I'm pretty sure that Frequency is just a Channel EQ in a different GUI).

Ps. somehow I don't like the 'sound' of Frequency. I'm curious if it's just an illusion because of that GUI

My bad i'm thinking of Waves ! Lol

[Agreed]

DC8C3 is my go to ducker.

[MogwaiBoy]

Laser, Pro-C and TrackSpacer

[jBam]

That's my issue with it, when I don't want ducking completely , finding that sweet spot can be really annoying. Was wondering what people use that might be better.

A lot of people these days create a separate trigger track, so that it can be dropped in/out easily during arrangement etc.

I used to use noise bursts and separate tracks when I used sidechaining for pumping/ducking effect (hardware and then later cubase comp when sidechiain first arrived); but as I mentioned I now exlusively use Volume Shaper for that stuff (and more). For me it's just a no brainer that if it's the pumping effect I'm after, or any repetetive rhythmic volume mod, using a dedicated / specialised plug to do it is easy and instantly on-point.

For more subtle ducking in mixing (e.g. subtle tidy ups where frequencies overlap but eq may take too much away from one or the other track), I've been revisiting cubase native (as I said)... just a little duck of sub from kick; or toms; or ride from hh... but yeah, level management when the feed is muted is finicky (i.e. annoying), and gets in the way of quickly moving forward with a tidy mix because there's a heap A/B muted unmuted checks and lots or tweaking of release times... in a not fun kinda way haha... and as lazy as it sounds, I hate automating volume for this stuff (mute the feed channel? automate the volume of the sidechain comp'd channel down to compensate). Kind of feel like I'm in dynamic eq territory here though, so may give that a go... Maybe even a bit "??" on whether I should have grabbed that eventide split during intro sale, as it's a pretty tight piece of gear for dynamic eq stuff (from the "on paper" perspective) and I'm assuming it can do all of it's primary functions from a sidechain feed too...

The Neutron suggestion...? Good reminder!... that's a plug I own that I've been meaning to try out for this stuff, so might just get stuck into that and see if I can get a cleaner solution with that. In fact - there's a whole lot I don't use neutron for that I should look into!... To much blah blah; too little blah blah blah ... I'll update thoughts here if I get around to it.

[LeVzi]

Laser, Pro-C and TrackSpacer

Laser ?

[MogwaiBoy]

Laser, Pro-C and TrackSpacer

Laser ?

Yep. Mid/side multiband sidechainer with individual attack/hold and release for each band - making it powerful and precise.

[MogwaiBoy]

But seriously for the EDM kick ducking kinda thing I just do this - no plugin required.. infact, no sidechaining required at all.



I honestly don't know why more people don't do it this way - why make it complicated? Maybe I should make a video explaining it - the thumbnail can be my face going "OMG" and the name of the video will be "THE SECRET TO EDM SIDECHAINING WITHOUT SIDECHAINING - WHAT THE PRO'S DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW". I will do this right after I release my totally fire Emotional Kazoo rompler.

[LeVzi]

The whole point was not to completely duck, just precise dropping of the bass enough to let the kick through, without taking the bassline away. Drawing it with automation is a ballache.

[jBam]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do it this way - why make it complicated?

It's a nice example, but I don't think people are generally missing the point that you can automate volume. Not sure how other software works, but automating volume was always a pain in cubase/old-old logic (it was definitely how I'd do this "in the box" fake-saidechain-comp prior to vst... oh... shit.. I can't remember... surely that wasn't vst 3?? 2 maybe? You know... whenever cubase let sidechaining happen, which was... "kinda recently"? lol... dunno .. within 10 years I feel. Either way, I'll never go back to a volume automation track for this stuff lol.

There's more to sidechain compression than 4-on-da-floor pump too (de-essing; de-harshing; de-cluttering). And even for 4 on the floor pumping, I don't miss a shit hardware comp (alesis)... Grabs the actual sound your feeding in a different way to a simple s curve. That said, your example with a nice S-curve is pretty much all I do these days too (in a specialised volume plug); I'd have a much longer transition leading toward the next beat more like a real comp's sweet spot (personal taste)... Doing this completely removes that pesky volume make-up issue I was complaining about with cubase stock plugs too.

All that said, after mentioning "shitty hardware comps"... man.. volume matching the cubase native is a piece of cake compared to that... So maybe I shoul just deal with it haha.

FYI - I'm also not 100% sure how accurate fast volume fades are via automation like that?... I've wondered in the past if fast automated console volume like that plays a bit more of a guessing game than a plug like volume shaper (or LFO tool)? Not sure - someone else can maybe can chime in.

[jBam]

The whole point was not to completely duck, just precise dropping of the bass enough to let the kick through, without taking the bassline away. Drawing it with automation is a ballache.

Yeah, you and me are in the same boat there... Subtle push-pull mixing edits... I mean, I do this stuff a lot, and even current results are good enough... but it's so fiddly, and I'm thinking the same as you: maybe I'm wassting my time while everyone else is using something better.

I've been adding a little duck to bass from kick / toms this week. Very subtle, but it's creating great space in the mix. This thread has me planning some new tests with new plugs, so I'll keep you posted.

Hmmm... this whole "too loud if you mute send" issue miiiight be a slgiht conundrum of sidechain compression though too, hey? The sweet spot is too deep for equal power A/B with/without, because the comp is doing it's job: lowering volume; and it's not the sweet-spot if it's sitting back at zero gain change too early (for me the sweet spot is rarely going to be "and then the volume is back to normal just before the next hit"... it's almost always deeper than that. Maybe a little volume automation for a muted feed isn't the end of the world if I can't sort this out automatically? I know I'm being lazy, but I'm trying to build all of this into a new master template, and I'm finding this a sticking point as A/B checks is huge part of mixing for me; and going "A": sound tight; "B": sounds loud... It's just... not an A/B haha... (EDIT: it's not JUST mix A/B either.. it's also the "drop/mute a part for creative reasons; oh crap, now that's too loud" issue I've been referring to).

[LeVzi]

I tried it in the week, and its so fiddly, as you said, I don't want to lose the impact of the bass, as it's melodic.

It will happen. This is a new genre/area for me, so it's all about learning the basics.

[muki]

The whole point was not to completely duck, just precise dropping of the bass enough to let the kick through, without taking the bassline away. Drawing it with automation is a ballache.

speaking of "ducking"...
...there's also...uhm...DUCK by deviousmachines

https://deviousmachines.com/duck/

isn't a compressor per se, but give great control for anything duckingwise (ans yes: with sidechain)

[LeVzi]

Kinda goes against what I'm trying to do unless it's really finely tunable

[MogwaiBoy]

The whole point was not to completely duck, just precise dropping of the bass enough to let the kick through, without taking the bassline away. Drawing it with automation is a ballache.

I whipped up that above example in seconds. Ofcourse you can change "Music" to "Bass Bus" or anything - and you can edit the duck curve so it goes really deep, or subtle. You only have to edit one automation curve, and it applies to all the other copies of it - atleast that's how it works in FL Studio which is really easy.

Also the mixer channel faders work at true 64-bit double-precision, so each of those curves has insanely small points like "0.184362525621", proceeded by ""0.184362525622". In other words... the precision and smoothness of the curves is probably better than almost any 3rd party plugin. When rendered, there is no zipper noise. You can also nudge all of the automation copies forward so you essentially get a "lookahead" effect when it begins ducking just before the kick (or whatever). This is a true zero-latency, zero-aliasing process unlike a lot of plugins.

You can also draw several automations so you can have a deep duck on the kick, and subtle duck on the snare etc - all on the same automation lane.

I don't see the ballache at all. Volume Shaper and those kinds of plugins are more a ballache cuz you gotta futz around with sidechaining into it. I would argue that anything involving non-typical routing across channels and diving into VST settings to access it, adds complexity, not simplification.

But ok, do it your way