Are there too many DAWs?

[Yearofthegoat]

@jamcat Good point about takeovers.

[LivingParadox]

Have any DAWs disappeared, i.e. folded due to lack of customers?

I can't think of any ATM, so one could argue that there aren't too many - from a free market perspective.

Development costs a lot, but maintaining a website to sell an already developed product doesn’t. So you’re not necessarily going to see a DAW implode in real time in dramatic fashion. But development may slow to a crawl or quietly cease altogether.

What is also quite common is a developer gets acquired by a larger company who can maintain day-to-day operations when the developer no longer can.

A partial list includes:

Opcode (Studio Vision) → Gibson
CoolEdit (Audition) → Adobe
Sonic Foundry (Vegas, ACID) → Sony
Emagic (Logic) → Apple
Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Pinnacle
DigiDesign (Pro Tools) → Avid
Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Yamaha
Cakewalk (Sonar) → Bandlab
PreSonus (Studio One) → Fender

This list is in no way complete, but you can see it includes just about every major DAW. Less notable developers don’t have the luxury of being bought out.

Maintenance is almost always needed, so just maintaining a website to sell doesn't really work and that's when these companies fold - especially with Apple OS updates... every couples years, even plugin developers are forced to whatever change they're making.. And Windows 10 became a bit like that to but not nearly as problematic as Apple. There have been some Windows updates that threw things off though. Factor in that the computer hardware drivers also have to be updated to match the OS updates as well, especially graphics related stuff... So there's a lot that can change compatibility wise within even a year.

SAW studios still kicking it, https://www.rmllabs.com/sawstudio.com/p ... studio.htm and supports WIn10

Steinberg discontinued Sequel.

[jamcat]

Totally forgot that Roland bought Cakewalk before Bandlab.

Opcode (Studio Vision) → Gibson
CoolEdit (Audition) → Adobe
Sonic Foundry (Vegas, ACID) → Sony
Emagic (Logic) → Apple
Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Pinnacle
DigiDesign (Pro Tools) → Avid
Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Yamaha
Cakewalk (Sonar) → Roland
Cakewalk (Sonar) → Bandlab
PreSonus (Studio One) → Fender

[cryophonik]

Are there too many DAWs?

Yes, there is exactly one too many DAWs, so we must vote the ugliest one off the island. Sorry Reaper [WHOMP whompppp].

[chk071]

I think there are a few too many. I think the market could live without the more niche/exotic ones.

But, hey. No harm in having those anyway. Actually, it's rather good. Everyone can choose the one they like the most.

[LivingParadox]

Are there too many DAWs?

Yes, there is exactly one too many DAWs, so we must vote the ugliest one off the island. Sorry Reaper [WHOMP whompppp].

You clearly haven't seen SAW Studio

[whyterabbyt]

Seemingly the number of people who want to make music at home doesn't stop to grow ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, this is bad for music producers as the number of people who listen to the music probably doesn't grow much.

probably not in total numbers, but its not the same people, and what I'd suspect is the biggest audience segment (the sorta 10-25 year olds ) is the one that constantly refreshes.

[Yearofthegoat]

Are there too many DAWs?

Yes, there is exactly one too many DAWs, so we must vote the ugliest one off the island. Sorry Reaper [WHOMP whompppp].

Yeah but Reaper's beautiful on the inside

[AdvancedFollower]

Seemingly the number of people who want to make music at home doesn't stop to grow ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's probably the reason Image Line's business model still works. You only pay them once and then you get free updates forever, so if they didn't constantly grow their user base they would stop making money as everyone would eventually own a copy of FL.

[AnX]

If you believe their figures, everyone does own a copy

[Damekanik]

The environment is friendlier to both newbies and producers on a budget these days. There are so many low cost DAWs to choose from. And some good ones are even free, like Cakewalk for example.

[jamcat]

I forgot that Gibson also owned Cakewalk for a time. Both are repeat offenders.

1995: DigiDesign (Pro Tools) → Avid
1998: Opcode (Studio Vision) → Gibson
2002: Emagic (Logic) → Apple
2003: Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Pinnacle
2003: Syntrillium (CoolEdit) → Adobe (Audition)
2003: Sonic Foundry (Vegas, ACID) → Sony
2005: Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Yamaha
2008: Cakewalk (SONAR) → Roland
2013: Cakewalk (SONAR) → Gibson
2018: Cakewalk (SONAR) → Bandlab (Cakewalk)
2021: PreSonus (Studio One) → Fender

[BONES]

Have any DAWs disappeared, i.e. folded due to lack of customers?

Orion was discontinued for this reason. Rich could no longer justify the time he needed to spend on Orion when he had 10 times more DUNE customers telling him what he needed to add to DUNE.

[machinesworking]

Have any DAWs disappeared, i.e. folded due to lack of customers?

I can't think of any ATM, so one could argue that there aren't too many - from a free market perspective.

Development costs a lot, but maintaining a website to sell an already developed product doesn’t. So you’re not necessarily going to see a DAW implode in real time in dramatic fashion. But development may slow to a crawl or quietly cease altogether.

What is also quite common is a developer gets acquired by a larger company who can maintain day-to-day operations when the developer no longer can.

A partial list includes:

Opcode (Studio Vision) → Gibson
CoolEdit (Audition) → Adobe
Sonic Foundry (Vegas, ACID) → Sony
Emagic (Logic) → Apple
Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Pinnacle
DigiDesign (Pro Tools) → Avid
Steinberg (Cubase, Nuendo) → Yamaha
Cakewalk (Sonar) → Bandlab
PreSonus (Studio One) → Fender

This list is in no way complete, but you can see it includes just about every major DAW. Less notable developers don’t have the luxury of being bought out.

Well every Major DAW except Live, Digital Performer, Bitwig, FL Studio, and Reaper, which are all still independently owned. As well as Reason which went with the investment approach to getting funding. IMO, and looking at the five I mentioned that aren’t owned by an investment firm, or a major company like Yamaha and Apple, I would say there’s multiple ways to pull that off: Reaper stays small as a company, same with Bitwig. Live initially offered a different workflow than the rest and remains a common secondary DAW (FL Studio as well). Digital Performers developers MOTU also after popular audio and MIDI interfaces, which probably prevents any cash shortages.

Basically I’m pretty sure you were being sarcastic with the line “ Less notable developers don’t have the luxury of being bought out.”, I think it’s more like most companies stretch themselves too thin to stay solvent over the years. Ableton flatly stated they would never ever be bought out, and DP has survived it’s own demise for the last 20 years that Logic was supposed to take it out. I think most companies are run poorly and do better with some parent company helping them not overspend or go under during times when cash is tight.

[machinesworking]

Have any DAWs disappeared, i.e. folded due to lack of customers?

Orion was discontinued for this reason. Rich could no longer justify the time he needed to spend on Orion when he had 10 times more DUNE customers telling him what he needed to add to DUNE.

On that line what happened to Energy XT? The website says it’s still 32 bit and they’re selling it for $17.