2022 PC Build Thread

[pljones]

> the best parts are hard to find
This has been what's been putting me off for months and months. I know what spec I want. I can see people reviewing builds with the parts I want... just nowhere in the UK seems to be supplying them. Only just recently things seem to be improving.

[Pictus]

How to "undervolt" AMD RYZEN 5800X3D Guide with PBO2 tuner.
https://github.com/PrimeO7/How-to-under ... PBO2-Tuner

[2DaT]

How to "undervolt" AMD RYZEN 5800X3D Guide with PBO2 tuner.
https://github.com/PrimeO7/How-to-under ... PBO2-Tuner

Why do that if stock works just fine? It's better not to mess with the stuff. You get potentially unstable system doing that.

[SLiC]

Yes, if you are making a Studio DAW stability is far more important than raw speed. Gamers like to tweak for speed (and fun I think), for Studio PC's not needed or recommended!

[Kr3eM]

How to "undervolt" AMD RYZEN 5800X3D Guide with PBO2 tuner.
https://github.com/PrimeO7/How-to-under ... PBO2-Tuner

Why do that if stock works just fine? It's better not to mess with the stuff. You get potentially unstable system doing that.

If you don't have the knowledge nor the time to learn how to do it then it's probably best not to mess with it, sure.

On the other hand, if you do then you potentially or most likely get an equally stable system but with better thermals which in of itself is worth it in the long run.

It's not like you get stuck with the changes and can't revert everything....but one should start with having a stable system to begin with and not having auto updates running as they please during setup and validation period...when think of it, if talking of things that can "potentially" make your system unstable then one should probably not having any auto updates enabled to begin with

[chk071]

I never tweak anything. If I want better performance, I take more money out of the wallet...

[SLiC]

Ditto- if it isn't broken don't try and fix it...if you buy a good quality computer from a reputable audio PC maker then you shouldn't have to touch anything...just make music.

[Kr3eM]

Ditto- if it isn't broken don't try and fix it...if you buy a good quality computer from a reputable audio PC maker then you shouldn't have to touch anything...just make music.

Oh silly me, here I was thinking the thread was about building computers.... nevermind, I will leave you prebuilt peasants to it then

[2DaT]

If you don't have the knowledge nor the time to learn how to do it then it's probably best not to mess with it, sure.

On the other hand, if you do then you potentially or most likely get an equally stable system but with better thermals which in of itself is worth it in the long run.

There is no knowledge involved, it's pure gambling whether it will work or not. And if it works today, doesn't mean it will work after 5 years or use.

If you need better thermals, you can turn the boosting off, or tweak power limits in the bios. There are also windows power settings that you can tweak. Messing up with internal CPU curves is just asking for trouble.

There is a reason CPU designers set them higher. If they could reduce the wattage by 10% by doing "tweaks" from the factory, they would do it, no doubt. So by tweaking these values yourself you either outsmart the whole department of well educated engineers or playing silicon lottery.

I don't get it how lower thermals are "worth it". If you need lower noise, you just buy better cooler with better fans and larger heat sinks.

[SLiC]

Ditto- if it isn't broken don't try and fix it...if you buy a good quality computer from a reputable audio PC maker then you shouldn't have to touch anything...just make music.

Oh silly me, here I was thinking the thread was about building computers.... nevermind, I will leave you prebuilt peasants to it then

If by 'peasants' you mean musicians that get a PC's built for them from the parts they select then I for one accept the title...the point several people have made quite politely is high end PC's in 2022 don't need tweaking for audio.

[PAK]

I don't think there's any harm (for someone who knows enough to build and config their system) in testing what their CPU can do, especially when under-volting. Even if you end up running things at stock it'll also help inform you of the true headroom your system has.

The main argument against it, these days, is AMD and Intel are already adept at "binning" their CPU parts. So you'll rarely luck out with anything which gives more than single digit percentage gains. It also won't help your cause that some suppliers try to find the best batches, for overclocked systems etc, which further reduces your already low chances.

You'd need to test a bunch of stuff, for a couple of weeks, to be confident about stability too. If someone wants to spend that amount of time and effort, just to get that few extra percent, then more power to them.

[PAK]

the best parts are hard to find

This has been what's been putting me off for months and months. I know what spec I want. I can see people reviewing builds with the parts I want... just nowhere in the UK seems to be supplying them. Only just recently things seem to be improving.

Curious which unobtanium parts people are still struggling to find? On scan.co.uk they seem to have most stuff available for next day delivery now, which is quite the contrast to a few months back. Some prices still a bit high though, at least compared to the better North American prices..

[Kr3eM]

There is no knowledge involved, it's pure gambling whether it will work or not. And if it works today, doesn't mean it will work after 5 years or use.

If you mean a undervolt that are dependent on AGESA micorcode hacking, sure, but I was refering to undervolting in general due to replies in the thread about not doing anything at all to a system....and I should have made that more clear. That's on me, I should know better when posting here.

On the other hand, my workstation only had 1 smal OS update within the 1rst year of my inital setup and no BIOS updates since then either, that was about 10 years now.. excluded software and plugins of course. In such scenario there should be no reason it should stop working out of the blue. But sure If one have a system setup that are dependent on constant OS updates for DRM and what not, or not have a dedicated machine for DAW work then obviously there's a risk.

If you need better thermals, you can turn the boosting off, or tweak power limits in the bios. There are also windows power settings that you can tweak. Messing up with internal CPU curves is just asking for trouble.

I never claimed you couldn't, look, there's various ways for various products and what will work best with what can vary a great deal...excluding bugs in BIOS which is a whole other matter.

Personally I have not have had the time to look into what Pictus posted in depth and I would probably go with a offset in BIOS to undervolt to start with if I had a 5800X3D...but with that said, I guess this could be a way for people with BIOS that don't get an option to set a v-core offset? I guess? since voltage control isn't actually being locked by AMD AFIIK but by motherboard vendors IIRC.... I'm still stuck on the B450 so I'll admit I'm not 100& upto date on all things B550/X570 series.

There is a reason CPU designers set them higher. If they could reduce the wattage by 10% by doing "tweaks" from the factory, they would do it, no doubt. So by tweaking these values yourself you either outsmart the whole department of well educated engineers or playing silicon lottery.

It's not a question about outsmarting the department. They could probably lower the wattage by 10% or perhaps even more, but there would be less die's on each wafer that would be of that quality....so less 5800X3D units per wafer, which means less profit. That doens't mean all of them need 1.35v to get the same performance... how many % will work as good with less voltage we can only guess... or perhaps time will tell if a decent amount of 5800X3D owners decides to do some undervolting... perhaps AMD will eventually unlock the Curve Optimizer the 5800X3D in the Ryzen Master if they get some time left over...who knows

I mean this CPU was more less made to beat (Intel) in gaming so everything else was most likely less of a priority for them, they tune it as much they could until making that goal and still have as much die's from the wafer to met that specification, the V-cache turned out to be the limiting factor when combined with 5000 cpu design... I doubt the efficiency was the main focus here , they got as many die's they could that would 'beat intel in gaming' nothing more nothing less... all other resources are probably spent on the next gen. ....so I suspect there are more gains to be made with this cpu by undervolting than the previous 5000 cpu's... time will tell I guess.

I don't get it how lower thermals are "worth it". If you need lower noise, you just buy better cooler with better fans and larger heat sinks.

As I said at the begining of the post, I was refering to undervolting in general..so I feel it would be wrong of me answering this since I suspect this is refering to me talking only about the Pictus link.

However there's a limit to what you can do with only "better" fans and larger heatsink...although, I agree that a good heat sink well thought out fan setup with optimized fan curves can do wonders depending on the gear.

On the other hand I have helped friends with their prebuilds by undervolting both cpu and cpu in other to gain performance and actually stop thermal throttle on default settings... looking at you ASUS. In these cases I can't honestly tell them to buy better cooler and fans when it's not needed and specially if they can't afford it.... but with that said, as it looks now I would not start modify any microcode if they had an 5800X3D.... but for myself, perhaps.... I sure would be tempted to undervolt it to use only a fifth of the powerdraw of a 9900K while only perform 5% worse...if I had one, but I would start with a motherboard good BIOS before hacking agesa...

[Kr3eM]

Ditto- if it isn't broken don't try and fix it...if you buy a good quality computer from a reputable audio PC maker then you shouldn't have to touch anything...just make music.

Oh silly me, here I was thinking the thread was about building computers.... nevermind, I will leave you prebuilt peasants to it then

If by 'peasants' you mean musicians that get a PC's built for them from the parts they select then I for one accept the title...the point several people have made quite politely is high end PC's in 2022 don't need tweaking for audio.

It was a joke, a friendly one at that, if used the wrong emote to convey that I do apologize...I'm lacking in the emoticon-usage-skills-deparment.

[2DaT]

In such scenario there should be no reason it should stop working out of the blue.

Chips degrade over time. It's not a problem at all for people who run stock, but for those who overclock/undervolt that may be a factor.

It's not a question about outsmarting the department. They could probably lower the wattage by 10% or perhaps even more, but there would be less die's on each wafer that would be of that quality....

Well, I tried to do some overclocking in 2010s and had terrible luck with all CPUs I had... Silicon lottery is a thing, and you may not win it. These days CPUs have even less headroom than they did before. And people on the internet overestimate the clocks, or stability of the system very often.

There is always a risk of unstable operation, that's what you need to acknowledge when doing overclocking/undervolting. It may be not obvious, it could be rare crash once a month, that doesn't reveal itself on stress test. That's #1 reason why I advise against it.