Intel Raptor Lake 13th Generation Core CPUs

[SantaClaus]

Prime95 pretty much kills most CPUs, that's the least representative benchmark!

[legendCNCD]

In normal DAW/ gaming situation the CPU's dont hit those temp maximums usually.

[Jim Roseberry]

We've tested both 7950x and 13900k based machines.

13900k is scoring slightly over 40k in Cinebench R23 multi-core.
7950x is scoring over 38k (close to 39k)

Both the 13900k and 7950x can run IK's ToneX at 96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size (~0.5ms total round-trip latency).
Both can run a substantial Helix Native patch at 96k using a 24-sample ASIO buffer size (under 1ms RTL).

If you want to run either at full potential, you're looking at a large case and top-tier 420mm water-cooler.
If you're thinking about trying an air-cooler with either... forget that notion.
A quality 360mm AIO struggles to keep up.

Thunderbolt is rock-solid with both.

For low latency audio work, performance is nearly identical.

[zvenx]

Thanks Jim. You built my last PC and you will certainly build my next one.
rsp

[Debutante]

We've tested both 7950x and 13900k based machines.

13900k is scoring slightly over 40k in Cinebench R23 multi-core.
7950x is scoring over 38k (close to 39k)

Both the 13900k and 7950x can run IK's ToneX at 96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size (~0.5ms total round-trip latency).
Both can run a substantial Helix Native patch at 96k using a 24-sample ASIO buffer size (under 1ms RTL).

If you want to run either at full potential, you're looking at a large case and top-tier 420mm water-cooler.
If you're thinking about trying an air-cooler with either... forget that notion.
A quality 360mm AIO struggles to keep up.

Thunderbolt is rock-solid with both.

For low latency audio work, performance is nearly identical.

hey what about the ice giant cooler? im getting myself the 7950 and dont like liquidmcooling much.
https://www.icegiantcooling.com

[Jim Roseberry]

hey what about the ice giant cooler? im getting myself the 7950 and dont like liquidmcooling much.
https://www.icegiantcooling.com

If you want to run the 7950x or 13900k at full potential, it requires a top-tier 420mm water-cooler.
I've tested the Ice Giant.
No way it's going to dissipate enough heat (when under substantial load).
Doesn't make sense to get a high-end "workstation" CPU... and cripple performance with inadequate cooling.
With 12th Gen Intel or Ryzen 5950x, Ice Giant would suffice.
If you're wanting to use an air-cooler, I'd scale down the CPU to the 13700k.

[Jim Roseberry]

BTW, The Ice Giant cooler isn't far from a traditional water-cooler.
From their website...

"There are no internal moving parts in the Elite that could break down.
By relying on good ‘ole gravity to operate rather than a mechanical pump, a prominent failure point of coolers is removed completely.

Heat from the CPU boils liquid inside the evaporator - vapor flows up to the condenser
Cool air flows through the condenser and liquifies the vapor
Gravity drives the liquid back to the evaporator, and the cycle repeats"

[2DaT]

BTW, The Ice Giant cooler isn't far from a traditional water-cooler.
From their website...

"There are no internal moving parts in the Elite that could break down.
By relying on good ‘ole gravity to operate rather than a mechanical pump, a prominent failure point of coolers is removed completely.

Heat from the CPU boils liquid inside the evaporator - vapor flows up to the condenser
Cool air flows through the condenser and liquifies the vapor
Gravity drives the liquid back to the evaporator, and the cycle repeats"

That's how heat pipes work too and every decent cooler has them.

[Pictus]

We've tested both 7950x and 13900k based machines.

13900k is scoring slightly over 40k in Cinebench R23 multi-core.
7950x is scoring over 38k (close to 39k)

Both the 13900k and 7950x can run IK's ToneX at 96k using a 16-sample ASIO buffer size (~0.5ms total round-trip latency).
Both can run a substantial Helix Native patch at 96k using a 24-sample ASIO buffer size (under 1ms RTL).

If you want to run either at full potential, you're looking at a large case and top-tier 420mm water-cooler.
If you're thinking about trying an air-cooler with either... forget that notion.
A quality 360mm AIO struggles to keep up.

Thunderbolt is rock-solid with both.

For low latency audio work, performance is nearly identical.

After all these years of overclocking, I never thought I would have to do
the exact opposite...
https://www.club386.com/intel-core-i9-1 ... w-and-65w/

BTW, The Ice Giant cooler isn't far from a traditional water-cooler.

There will be a new cooper version


And there will be new a Noctua NH-D15 with newer 140mm fan
https://noctua.at/en/product-roadmap

[Jim Roseberry]

I've got the 13900k scoring over 40k (multi-core = 40,658) with Cinebench R23.
The 7950x scoring just under 39k (multi-core = 38,954)
No thermal-throttling
No under-volt

It's a combination of robust cooling (420mm)... and proper BIOS settings
ie: If you're wanting the 13900k to hit 40k in Cinebench R23, it's never going to happen with a D15.
If you're going to clock the 13900k down (to where the D15 is effective), save yourself some money and get the 13700k.

Some folks have built 10980xe based machines using the D15.
Runs nice and quiet... idle or light loads
Render some video with this configuration... and watch your CPU clock-speed plummet.
Tested this scenario. Would never build it for myself or clients.
No point in having a true "workstation" CPU... if you're going to limit its performance with inadequate cooling.
No different than building a fast machine... and not installing enough RAM for your largest projects. It'll hit the VM Swapfile... and kill performance.

[Jim Roseberry]

That's how heat pipes work too and every decent cooler has them.

If you've seen/used the Ice Giant, it's a lot more akin to a water-cooler than something like the D15.

[2DaT]

That's how heat pipes work too and every decent cooler has them.

If you've seen/used the Ice Giant, it's a lot more akin to a water-cooler than something like the D15.

Yeah, with 4 (!) fans and outrageous price tag of 180$.

[Pictus]

I've got the 13900k scoring over 40k (multi-core = 40,658) with Cinebench R23.
The 7950x scoring just under 39k (multi-core = 38,954)
No thermal-throttling
No under-volt

It's a combination of robust cooling (420mm)... and proper BIOS settings
ie: If you're wanting the 13900k to hit 40k in Cinebench R23, it's never going to happen with a D15.
If you're going to clock the 13900k down (to where the D15 is effective), save yourself some money and get the 13700k.

Have you tested the maximum RAM speed when using 4x32GB RAM on both platforms?
IF yes, what was the RAM and motherboard, thanks!

[Cypsilonib]

If you want to run either at full potential, you're looking at a large case and top-tier 420mm water-cooler.
If you're thinking about trying an air-cooler with either... forget that notion.
A quality 360mm AIO struggles to keep up.

If you want to run the 7950x or 13900k at full potential, it requires a top-tier 420mm water-cooler.

”– –”

Doesn't make sense to get a high-end "workstation" CPU... and cripple performance with inadequate cooling.

”– –”

If you're wanting to use an air-cooler, I'd scale down the CPU to the 13700k.

... If you're wanting the 13900k to hit 40k in Cinebench R23, it's never going to happen with a D15.
If you're going to clock the 13900k down (to where the D15 is effective), save yourself some money and get the 13700k.

”– –”

No point in having a true "workstation" CPU... if you're going to limit its performance with inadequate cooling.

Hi, I'm getting 13700k for a new machine and I was thinking of maybe Noctua's NH-D15 as a cooler. But now that I'm reading something like this, it makes me wonder if there's any sense in that too? I can see that you think an air-cooler is (maybe[?]) enough for the 13700k, but I wonder if the same principle applies to it a bit as you say about 13900k: "No point in having a true "workstation" CPU... if you're going to limit its performance with inadequate cooling."?

So, am I crippling and weakening 13700k's performance if I get the NH-D15 for it? And by how severely?

What cooling would you use with the 13700k yourself (or recommend to a customer)?

I don't know much about computers in depth and I got my last desktop computer about 12 years ago. Never had a liquid cooling system. This new machine would be for Cubase (VSTi + effects + audio + midi).

Here's my post about a new desktop computer.

[CubaseInSeattle]

Hi everyone. I had noticed a similar parallel thread where Jim Roseberry had mentioned:

"The 13900k can run on an existing Z690 motherboard (instead of the newer Z790).
However, I wouldn't recommend this... as the 13900k runs significantly slower
ie: Using an Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Formula (~$800) motherboard, the P cores are locked at 5500Mhz and E cores are locked at 4300MHz. Doesn't matter what settings you actually choose."

My question to Jim (and everyone) is for those of us that have a 12900K/Z690 combination, already configured with multiple M.2 drives and SSD's for the VEP/EW/Kontakt/Other libraries and plugs - if dropping in a 13900K is not recommended, then would building a separate 13900K/Z790 machine solely for the purpose of running the DAW and managing the AD/DA converter interfaces, and leaving the existing 12900K/Z690 active as a VEP slave? Or have we gotten to the point with these new AMD/INTEL chips that having a VEP slave for most intents and purposes is just not warranted any longer? I would be very interested in your comments and also when a 13900K/Z790 rig would be available?

Thanks!
-Gene