Technicly all modern synthesizers are semi-modular/modular

[pekbro]

and all hardware synths are modular at the component level

Probably, though I'm not sure the level is exactly the same, while you could write a probably not super efficient software synthesizer in a single routine, I'm not certain you could do that in hardware without using components.

Semantics of course, but I was already being literal.

[gentleclockdivider]

@ Databroth , exactly !

[imrae]

I've actually been working on a write up to "define" different types of modular...

You must read Michael Hetrick's thesis, it is highly relevant and a good read for people interested in this kind of thing:
https://www.alexandria.ucsb.edu/lib/ark:/48907/f3kk9bz1
It would be good to use the same terminology where possible rather than fragment the language used around this stuff.

(Michael Hetrick is part of Unfiltered Audio and an occasional poster around here!)

[i need Help]

I mean, why fight it lol? On YouTube if you listen closely, these beat makers and music influencers are basically reinventing foundational music theory at this point with their fancy Chord Codes and such. Was just a matter of time before other concepts also get the “secret sauce” treatment lol.

So sure, “modular” synth architecture now means the same thing as parameter “modulation” ability lol.

This certified old-head is sticking with the times!

[Boy Wonder]

Lets say Serum/Vital/Dune 3/Hive 2/Obsession/Rapid/Avenger/Spire/Sylenth1... you can modulate basicly antyhing with anything = modular.

NO , a modular means there are separate modules and signals .
Audio signals are bipolar (ac) and control signals unipolar (dc) , both running at near light speed or in the digital domain at sample rate ( yes even the control signals )
So in a modular system you can easily patch an envelope straight to the audio output while being triggered by clock source , this would be the result.


Reason why I gave these examples is to show that the resolution or rather the update rate of control signals are the same as audio signals and therefore the modulation will be as accurate as possible .
Take reason for example, all it's cv signals are updated @ 1/64th of the actual sample rate , so that's 689 hz when SR. is 44Khz, which is enough for slow running lfo's but not for fast audio rate ones .
Now if a Sine lfo runs at 1000 KHZ it will exhibit aliasing and thus the sinewaveform will look jaggy , and this will be reflected in the modulation
YOu can't patch the output of an osc. to control the pulsewidth of a square wave , therefore it' not really a modular .
True digital modulars also let you create feedback loops with a 1unit sample delay .
Reaktor = true modular
VCV rack = true modular
Dune 3 , altough everything can be updated at sample rate , it won't allow 1 unit feedback loops therefore it's imho semimodular
PUre data = true modular ( 1 unit feedback loops are possible with block~ 1 in subpatcher)
MAx -msp true modular with gen~
Bitwig grid ,semimodular , won't allow 1 unit feedback loops
et..

This is why modular leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Instead of making music, I'm climbing the walls with confounding math symbols crawling up my yin yang.

[databroth]

I've actually been working on a write up to "define" different types of modular...

You must read Michael Hetrick's thesis, it is highly relevant and a good read for people interested in this kind of thing:
https://www.alexandria.ucsb.edu/lib/ark:/48907/f3kk9bz1
It would be good to use the same terminology where possible rather than fragment the language used around this stuff.

(Michael Hetrick is part of Unfiltered Audio and an occasional poster around here!)

Funny Enough Michael may have already read my rough draft or at least looked at it, I think my write up is covering broader synthesis categories rather than anything per module. But yes I'd rather not fragment definitions. It will ultimately be a suggestion, or a framework to look at categorization through.
The main goal is to set some sort of parameters that could define a synth as one type of synthesis or another, modular seemed to be such an encompassing term I felt the need to break it up a bit. Ideally no more than 3 broad ranges of modular (not including semi modular) because there's a huge difference between what you can do with phaseplant, vcv rack, and Reaktor core, and there's a huge difference in how you'd approach using these tools as well.

Edit: I actually already used a bit of his terminology when it comes to describing modulation systems, making sure to credit him right now

[Frantz]

Technicly all modern animals are semi-penguins.

[Lbdunequest]

Are Korg MS20 and Arturia MiniBrute modular or semi modular? I dont see in theyr patchbays that you can change the audio pathways the way some folks described. So if these synths would be called Semi modular, you can say the same that Serum is semi modular.

[Jafo]

I wish I knew why spending an hour to patch 27 wires to get just a monophonic sine wave is a productive use of time. Err, no, I really don't...

[pixel85]

I wish I knew why spending an hour to patch 27 wires to get just a monophonic sine wave is a productive use of time. Err, no, I really don't...

Not everything we do must be productive. Ever heard of hobbies or simply having fun?

I use my mini eurorack after work to make music for fun. I wouldn't never use it at work. Hell no
But for me it's fun to patch it. Maybe it's one of the outcomes of growing up with Lego Technics.

Ps. I hate to do it in software. Patching virtual cables with a mouse is meh imo.

[gentleclockdivider]

Are Korg MS20 and Arturia MiniBrute modular or semi modular? I dont see in theyr patchbays that you can change the audio pathways the way some folks described. So if these synths would be called Semi modular, you can say the same that Serum is semi modular.

Strictly speaking semi modular means that the synth will produce sound without any connections being made , iow some modules are alread hardwired ( but these can be overriden )
A modular needs at least one connection to make sound , sound source -->vca .
The ms 20 also misses the raw osc output as a mod source , something the arturia version does have.

[PieBerger]

I wish I knew why spending an hour to patch 27 wires to get just a monophonic sine wave is a productive use of time. Err, no, I really don't...

Not everything we do must be productive. Ever heard of hobbies or simply having fun?

I use my mini eurorack after work to make music for fun. I wouldn't never use it at work. Hell no
But for me it's fun to patch it. Maybe it's one of the outcomes of growing up with Lego Technics.

Ps. I hate to do it in software. Patching virtual cables with a mouse is meh imo.

Same for me. I don't have much interest in software modular, except for ACE and Bazille, but they are great synths when used in a regular fixed architecture context.

My modest case hardware is for pure time wasting joy, actually it's a double time wasting exercise because I also built and will continue to build, most of my modules myself from kits and sourcing everything myself (dayjob skills have to come in handy somewhere )

I think it is scratching that same itch that Lego did for me as a kid as well

[zerocrossing]

Lets say Serum/Vital/Dune 3/Hive 2/Obsession/Rapid/Avenger/Spire/Sylenth1... you can modulate basicly antyhing with anything = modular.

No, because you can’t modulate anything with anything. For instance, my Dominion 1, a semi modular, can modulate my Roland Torcido. It can send audio and CV to other things, and get it from other things. The synths you’ve mentioned are closed systems.

[zerocrossing]

I wish I knew why spending an hour to patch 27 wires to get just a monophonic sine wave is a productive use of time. Err, no, I really don't...

Not everything we do must be productive. Ever heard of hobbies or simply having fun?

I use my mini eurorack after work to make music for fun. I wouldn't never use it at work. Hell no
But for me it's fun to patch it. Maybe it's one of the outcomes of growing up with Lego Technics.

Ps. I hate to do it in software. Patching virtual cables with a mouse is meh imo.

Same for me. I don't have much interest in software modular, except for ACE and Bazille, but they are great synths when used in a regular fixed architecture context.

My modest case hardware is for pure time wasting joy, actually it's a double time wasting exercise because I also built and will continue to build, most of my modules myself from kits and sourcing everything myself (dayjob skills have to come in handy somewhere )

I think it is scratching that same itch that Lego did for me as a kid as well

You’re describing why I ran away from hardware modular. It was loads of fun, but when I did an actual assessment of what I’d really need to make something that I wanted, the cost was crazy, and the amount of time I spent to get a cool sound that I’d never easily be able to use again just seemed like a huge shame. I ran back to Reaktor, Softube Modular, and later VCV Rack with my tail between my legs.

[zerocrossing]

I wish I knew why spending an hour to patch 27 wires to get just a monophonic sine wave is a productive use of time. Err, no, I really don't...

Not everything we do must be productive. Ever heard of hobbies or simply having fun?

I use my mini eurorack after work to make music for fun. I wouldn't never use it at work. Hell no
But for me it's fun to patch it. Maybe it's one of the outcomes of growing up with Lego Technics.

Ps. I hate to do it in software. Patching virtual cables with a mouse is meh imo.

I saw a good meme… I forget the exact wording, but the basic gist was “be an artist, not a worker making a product.” We’re on the brink of AI being able to replace a lot of what all we do. People are up in arms and ready to fight it, but that’s like the horse and buggy industry fighting the automobile industry. It is a fight we will not win. The correct tact is to ignore the “industry” and let the decoupling of what you do and money be your liberation. You can do anything now! Never have to think, “will this music make money?” I’ve had this mindset for the past 30 years, and it’s been awesome, and actually led to me to making a living doing music. Well, at least 70% of my time is doing that, but it shifts as needs change. It wasn’t like I was really working towards that, though. A need came up and I was in the right place at the right time. So that’s my advice. Keep doing what you’re doing because you love it, not because it might make you money. Never stop. Maybe you’ll end up in the right place at the right time, but if not, you had a great time.