Groove Synthesis 3rd Wave Desktop verison announced ($3500)

[egbert101]

This is great but it's $3000 out of my price range!

[Jim Roseberry]

The 3rd Wave is somewhat of a quirky (albeit very powerful) synth.
I bought it when it was first released, but didn't care for the Wavetable type sounds.
I never seem to keep Wavetable based synths.

Flash forward to last week... I watched Jim Daneker's YouTube video (below).

The next morning, I drove to Sweetwater, liquidated a few things, and grabbed the 3rd Wave.
The VA section now has free running oscillators.

- 24-voice polyphony
- Analog Filter (same as in the Prophet-10)
- digital State Variable Filter
- Pan Spread
- Mod-Matrix

The 3rd Wave can achieve Moog'ish, Prophet'ish, and OB'ish type sounds.
If you're super critical, it's not going to sound 100% identical.
What's somewhat surprising is just how large/fat the 3rd Wave can sound.
(If you think the 3rd Wave sounds thin/metallic, watch Jim's video.)
As a point of reference, I think the 3rd Wave's VA sounds are more authentic (have more "vibe") than Quantum.
Quantum is extremely versatile... and more "Hi-Fi" sounding.

Using the 3rd Wave is fairly easy (mostly knob/button per function).
What I don't like is that there's no "Exit" button (to get the display back to the patch name).

Many folks weigh getting the 3rd Wave against the Prophet-10 or OB-X8.
That's tough...
Prophet-10 and OB-X8 both do their Analog thing extremely well... but are limited (polyphony, modulation, no effects, etc).
3rd Wave can sound pretty close to those two... has three times the polyphony, effects (though somewhat spartan), far more modulation options, and has the ability to sound like a PPG.

Compared to something like the Trigon-6:
Trigon-6 is pure analog with Ladder Filter.
If you're wanting to recreate the sound of a MiniMoog, Trigon-6 sounds closer to the real thing.
To achieve 12 notes of polyphony, you have to chain two Trigon-6 units (about the same cost as the 3rd Wave).

In a perfect world, I'd like to see 3rd Wave support sample playback.

[egbert101]

Cheap isn't always bad. Here is a nice video showing a cheap VA synth with Oberheim, Prophet, Moog filters, among others.

[kritikon]

If it can sound like a Moog, it makes it even less attractive to me. The starting point of metallic wavetable character then fattened up into progrock wankery... (almost every demo of Moogs end up in progrock/jazz wankery, never understood why, but obvs Moogs predispose to it).

[simmo75]

If it can sound like a Moog, it makes it even less attractive to me. The starting point of metallic wavetable character then fattened up into progrock wankery... (almost every demo of Moogs end up in progrock/jazz wankery, never understood why, but obvs Moogs predispose to it).

Oh my…
You want to hate it, maybe try it before you judge.

It’s an incredible synth!

I love sampling into it directly, and creating my own Wavetables, fat and juicy! Not thin and glassy.

[Jim Roseberry]

If it can sound like a Moog, it makes it even less attractive to me. The starting point of metallic wavetable character then fattened up into progrock wankery... (almost every demo of Moogs end up in progrock/jazz wankery, never understood why, but obvs Moogs predispose to it).

FWIW, I wouldn't care what someone else does with an instrument.
ie: If I like a guitar, it doesn't matter to me if Ola England thinks it "chugs" (or not).

Having a State Variable Filter... and the same Analog filter that's used in the Prophet-10, 3rd Wave is going to lean more to Prophet and OB type sounds.
Of course there's going to be some degree of cross-over.
With some work, you can get a MiniMoog type lead out of a Prophet-10.

Mono analog synths tend to sound bigger/bolder than many Polys.
That's partly why they're often used for bass and lead.

[Vectorman]

It's great that a company has produced a modern update of the PPG, complete with a physical design that evokes nostalgia for it (I love that). No doubt if I was a well-funded touring artist and wanted that kind of capability in a self-contained hardware instrument, I'd be all over it. Just for my own purposes, I feel like the modern/hi-fi wavetable sound design territory is something I already have covered with Massive X, Hive 2, Dune 3, Serum, Icarus, etc. What I'm missing is that retro grungy wavetables through analog filters sound - the PPG sound. But at this point, I think I'm content to wait for the more singularly focused and considerably lower priced PPG remake that is likely still coming...even if it takes another 2 or 3 years or whatever to ship.

I don’t know what happened to it, but Behringer was working on a PPG clone. I’m surprised it’s not done by now.

Yep, that's the one I was thinking of. My guess is it's probably done and that they may be holding off on posting demos of it until it's close to getting a spot in the mass production queue.

[zerocrossing]

If it can sound like a Moog, it makes it even less attractive to me. The starting point of metallic wavetable character then fattened up into progrock wankery... (almost every demo of Moogs end up in progrock/jazz wankery, never understood why, but obvs Moogs predispose to it).

FWIW, I wouldn't care what someone else does with an instrument.
ie: If I like a guitar, it doesn't matter to me if Ola England thinks it "chugs" (or not).

Having a State Variable Filter... and the same Analog filter that's used in the Prophet-10, 3rd Wave is going to lean more to Prophet and OB type sounds.
Of course there's going to be some degree of cross-over.
With some work, you can get a MiniMoog type lead out of a Prophet-10.

Mono analog synths tend to sound bigger/bolder than many Polys.
That's partly why they're often used for bass and lead.

You can put a Model D in Trent Reznor's hands and in Keith Emerson's hands and it would be hard to imagine they're the same synthesizer.

I actually avoided synths because of the prog rock style sounds in the 70s. I just didn't like them and I was ignorant about synthesis so I didn't know better. It wasn't until later when I heard interesting stuff that I started to get interested and learn what could be done. Similarly, I only recently found out that one of my favorite guitar amps that I've ever known is highly revered for it's metal tones, yet I definitely don't do metal music. Jimi Hendrix and Buddy Holly both played Stratocasters, etc. The musician makes the instrument, not the other way round.

[zerocrossing]

Cheap isn't always bad. Here is a nice video showing a cheap VA synth with Oberheim, Prophet, Moog filters, among others.

Yeah, there's about a thousand ways you can tell a KingKORG is a cheap VA, and some of them are as easy as playing higher up on the keyboard.

[CoolColJ]

The 3rd Wave is somewhat of a quirky (albeit very powerful) synth.
I bought it when it was first released, but didn't care for the Wavetable type sounds.
I never seem to keep Wavetable based synths.

Flash forward to last week... I watched Jim Daneker's YouTube video (below).

The next morning, I drove to Sweetwater, liquidated a few things, and grabbed the 3rd Wave.
The VA section now has free running oscillators.

- 24-voice polyphony
- Analog Filter (same as in the Prophet-10)
- digital State Variable Filter
- Pan Spread
- Mod-Matrix

The 3rd Wave can achieve Moog'ish, Prophet'ish, and OB'ish type sounds.
If you're super critical, it's not going to sound 100% identical.
What's somewhat surprising is just how large/fat the 3rd Wave can sound.
(If you think the 3rd Wave sounds thin/metallic, watch Jim's video.)
As a point of reference, I think the 3rd Wave's VA sounds are more authentic (have more "vibe") than Quantum.
Quantum is extremely versatile... and more "Hi-Fi" sounding.

Using the 3rd Wave is fairly easy (mostly knob/button per function).
What I don't like is that there's no "Exit" button (to get the display back to the patch name).

Many folks weigh getting the 3rd Wave against the Prophet-10 or OB-X8.
That's tough...
Prophet-10 and OB-X8 both do their Analog thing extremely well... but are limited (polyphony, modulation, no effects, etc).
3rd Wave can sound pretty close to those two... has three times the polyphony, effects (though somewhat spartan), far more modulation options, and has the ability to sound like a PPG.

Compared to something like the Trigon-6:
Trigon-6 is pure analog with Ladder Filter.
If you're wanting to recreate the sound of a MiniMoog, Trigon-6 sounds closer to the real thing.
To achieve 12 notes of polyphony, you have to chain two Trigon-6 units (about the same cost as the 3rd Wave).

In a perfect world, I'd like to see 3rd Wave support sample playback.

Since you have a Trigon, which I also have.
Does the 3rd Wave envelopes and VCA get as snappy and punchy as the Trigon?

And for sure the Trigon can sound so much like a Minimoog. The way the waveforms and oscillators mesh together had my Minimoog sensor tingling (used to own one), and is just as snappy/punchy

[simmo75]

A nice touch with the envelopes is you can choose between 3rd wave or the original PPG envelopes.

[CoolColJ]

A nice touch with the envelopes is you can choose between 3rd wave or the original PPG envelopes.

Can the mod matrix self modulate the envelope stage shapes to change the slopes?
I like doing that on my synths that have such a feature to create DX7 style multistage envelope bonky percussive tones

[simmo75]

A nice touch with the envelopes is you can choose between 3rd wave or the original PPG envelopes.

Can the mod matrix self modulate the envelope stage shapes to change the slopes?
I like doing that on my synths that have such a feature to create DX7 style multistage envelope bonky percussive tones

Not sure what you mean.
If you mean can you use an envelope to module the ADSR then yes

[Constructed Identity]

A nice touch with the envelopes is you can choose between 3rd wave or the original PPG envelopes.

Can the mod matrix self modulate the envelope stage shapes to change the slopes?
I like doing that on my synths that have such a feature to create DX7 style multistage envelope bonky percussive tones

I think the FM abilities of the 3rd wave are not well known. It can use any osc to modulate the frequency of another osc. "Linear FM like the DK7", it states in the manual and since I spent most of yesterday (after watching the Vikings) making patches, I love the FM sound it can make. Just like a dedicated FM synth, it can get into real gnarly territory fast, but the sweet spots are wonderful.

What I don't like on this synth is that most of the factory patches -500- were not well made. I can understand not spending a lot of time on the recreations of original PPG patches, but to not use any of the mod matrix or great sounding effects on patch after patch is a crime. This synth has the most complex effects possibilities than anything since the Kurzwiel K2000RS I owned years ago.
I should post a sound demo of the one with the echoplex tape delays on the two parts panned hard left and right.

[Jim Roseberry]

Since you have a Trigon, which I also have.
Does the 3rd Wave envelopes and VCA get as snappy and punchy as the Trigon?

And for sure the Trigon can sound so much like a Minimoog. The way the waveforms and oscillators mesh together had my Minimoog sensor tingling (used to own one), and is just as snappy/punchy

I just liquidated a 2022 Model-D Reissue... in part to pay for a Montage M8x.
While that one note can be glorious, it's just not the most practical choice.
I was hanging onto it because of nostalgia.

I like the sound of Trigon-6. It can get punchy and or aggressive.
I'm probably going to grab the module... so I can have 12-voices of polyphony.
One of the first things I do with any new synth... is program a Moog lead type sound.
Simple sound... but it reveals a lot about the character of the oscillators and filter.
IMO, Trigon's keyboard is better than the 2022 Reissue Model-D.
Great for quick runs.
If the Trigon had 16-voices... and added a State Variable Filter, it would be a monster.
Price would also be monstrous.

3rd Wave can get pretty punchy with the EGs.
I've been messing with a Taurus type sound:
3 Oscillators set to Sawtooth, slightly detuned, Unison set to 2 voices
With the sustain control backed down just a bit on the Amp and Filter EGs, there's a healthy attack.

The latest v1.6 firmware (released last night) fixed a problem when bending pitch with Free Running Oscillator mode enabled. There was audible zipper noise (pops/ticks).
That's now gone. Super smooth bends and LFO pitch modulation

There's a lot to like about both synths.
Both are pretty easy to use.