Thoughts on Valhalla Delay vs EchoBoy?

[comfortablynick]

I think latency is usually a non-issue with delay and reverb plugins because it's a drop in the bucket of the total delay time, so you'd never notice.

I like both plugins. The customization of the delay that EchoBoy offers is nice, but the UI is small and hard to read so I end up using Valhalla Delay more. I'm invested in the iLok system so I prefer to use it since it makes installing and authorizing plugins a breeze.

[audiouser720]

Echoboy Jr is pretty decent tbf if you just want a through in and ready to go delay. They UI is way nicer than senior Echoboy’s

[vitocorleone123]

Valhalla is the better general delay plugin.

I never thought much of Echoboy, even now. I supplement Valhalla with Replika XT, Tekturon, Repeater and the fantastic Echoleffe. But Valhalla Delay is my default unless I already know I want some other effect better accomplished with one of those other delays.

[Niowiad]

I think latency is usually a non-issue with delay and reverb plugins because it's a drop in the bucket of the total delay time, so you'd never notice.

It's not just delaying the single effect. The entire track is affected, otherwise you'd have to hear the dry signal and all latency-inducing plugin's wet signals running in parallel with each other on slightly different time-offsets... I don't even want to know what that sounds like

If for example I am playing/recording with this fx-chain at 128 buffer size:
- COMP: Waves dbx160... 85spls
- EQ: FuseAudio W2395c... 32spls
- DELAY: EchoBoy... 32spls
- REVERB: Kush Goldplate... 219spls

Total latency of the entire track is 368spls --> it rounds-up to 384 --> 9ms of extra latency (which added to the DAW's own round-trip latency easily gets in the annoying territory of over 15-20ms of delay between what you play and what you hear).

Now replacing Goldplate with a zero-latency reverb (e.g. FuseAudio's VREV-140) ... total is down to 149 --> rounds-up to 256 --> 6ms extra latency

Now replacing EchoBoy with a zero-latency delay (e.g. ValhallaDelay)... total is down to 117 --> rounds-up to 128 --> 3ms extra latency

We just replaced delay and reverb since we were talking about those, but the compressor and EQ can also be replaced by zero latency alternatives bringing the total track's extra latency down to zero.


The maximum I can bear with is 256 samples of latency on a recording track with my current system... probably lower than that on transient-heavy material.
Therefore I tend to favor low or zero-latency effects to get 128spls or even zero extra latency on the track.

Anything which is NOT recording/playing in real time is a different story, where I don't care if I have even 2 seconds of latency.

Echoboy Jr is pretty decent tbf if you just want a through in and ready to go delay. They UI is way nicer than senior Echoboy’s

When I saw Jr's nicer GUI I thought that meant the bigger brother was getting it too... nope

[bk]

Soundtoys updates come at glacial speed.

[audiouser720]

I think latency is usually a non-issue with delay and reverb plugins because it's a drop in the bucket of the total delay time, so you'd never notice.

It's not just delaying the single effect. The entire track is affected, otherwise you'd have to hear the dry signal and all latency-inducing plugin's wet signals running in parallel with each other on slightly different time-offsets... I don't even want to know what that sounds like

If for example I am playing/recording with this fx-chain at 128 buffer size:
- COMP: Waves dbx160... 85spls
- EQ: FuseAudio W2395c... 32spls
- DELAY: EchoBoy... 32spls
- REVERB: Kush Goldplate... 219spls

Total latency of the entire track is 368spls --> it rounds-up to 384 --> 9ms of extra latency (which added to the DAW's own round-trip latency easily gets in the annoying territory of over 15-20ms of delay between what you play and what you hear).

Now replacing Goldplate with a zero-latency reverb (e.g. FuseAudio's VREV-140) ... total is down to 149 --> rounds-up to 256 --> 6ms extra latency

Now replacing EchoBoy with a zero-latency delay (e.g. ValhallaDelay)... total is down to 117 --> rounds-up to 128 --> 3ms extra latency

We just replaced delay and reverb since we were talking about those, but the compressor and EQ can also be replaced by zero latency alternatives bringing the total track's extra latency down to zero.


The maximum I can bear with is 256 samples of latency on a recording track with my current system... probably lower than that on transient-heavy material.
Therefore I tend to favor low or zero-latency effects to get 128spls or even zero extra latency on the track.

Anything which is NOT recording/playing in real time is a different story, where I don't care if I have even 2 seconds of latency.

Echoboy Jr is pretty decent tbf if you just want a through in and ready to go delay. They UI is way nicer than senior Echoboy’s

When I saw Jr's nicer GUI I thought that meant the bigger brother was getting it too... nope

Yeah, don’t even. Buy the time they update it (if ever) I will get my first pension probably, and that won’t be tomorrow

[mixtur.se]

No ducking in echoboy unfortunately. Yes, it can be setup with sends etc. it but I just end up choosing that has ducking. Replika XT is my favorite for that use case.
Also, the tiny gui is a showstopper on a high res monitor (they support hidpi now but the plugin is not scalable),

[swilow11]

I actually like the ducking in Colour Copy better than Replica XT. CoCo doesn't seem to lead to weird fluctuations in soundscape, I think at least a portion of the more immediate taps gets through. But ReplikaXT is more versatile and really nicely cuts through the mix without leading to muddiness. A pity it seems to crash Cubase a bit.

[c_bomb]

Yeah, don’t even. Buy the time they update it (if ever) I will get my first pension probably, and that won’t be tomorrow

Your pension must have come in just after you posted.

Echoboy has a new hi-res GUI as of v5.4. Not resizable though.

[Frantz]

I use Valhalla Delay on every track I make. It has good presets and is simple enough that you can quickly dial in the effect you are looking for. It is also actively developed.

I have Echoboy but haven't used it in years. It's fine but not a first choice for me these days. Soundtoys seems to be more or less done with new development and are in a kind of maintenance mode.

[liquidsound]

Valhalla! Oh boy!

[audiouser720]

I actually like the ducking in Colour Copy better than Replica XT. CoCo doesn't seem to lead to weird fluctuations in soundscape, I think at least a portion of the more immediate taps gets through. But ReplikaXT is more versatile and really nicely cuts through the mix without leading to muddiness. A pity it seems to crash Cubase a bit.

This is what I was talking about. Finally, someone has started it.

So, Colour Copy, IMHO, sounds better both in isolation and in the mix than both Echoboy and VDelay. There.

[swilow11]

I actually like the ducking in Colour Copy better than Replica XT. CoCo doesn't seem to lead to weird fluctuations in soundscape, I think at least a portion of the more immediate taps gets through. But ReplikaXT is more versatile and really nicely cuts through the mix without leading to muddiness. A pity it seems to crash Cubase a bit.

This is what I was talking about. Finally, someone has started it.

So, Colour Copy, IMHO, sounds better both in isolation and in the mix than both Echoboy and VDelay. There.

Amazingly, discussion evolved organically on a an internet message board and you noticed it. Hurray.

[audiouser720]

I actually like the ducking in Colour Copy better than Replica XT. CoCo doesn't seem to lead to weird fluctuations in soundscape, I think at least a portion of the more immediate taps gets through. But ReplikaXT is more versatile and really nicely cuts through the mix without leading to muddiness. A pity it seems to crash Cubase a bit.

This is what I was talking about. Finally, someone has started it.

So, Colour Copy, IMHO, sounds better both in isolation and in the mix than both Echoboy and VDelay. There.

Amazingly, discussion evolved organically on a an internet message board and you noticed it. Hurray.

Nah mate, I was referring to this (quoting myself):

“ I don’t want to be the first one who ignores the original question and suggests anything else other than Vdelay and Echoboy. I wait until someone else starts that traditionally and then I will advise what’s better than both of these plugins ”

But worry no more, I’m not blaming you. I’ve been waiting for you. And I agree with your observations on Replika and Colour Copy.

[DCrown]

iLok is the guarantee that you haven't purchased cracked versions, so maybe go for iLok, it's safer.