Soundtoys, where free = $39

[noiseboyuk]

Oh dear, I really have broken the KVR code, haven't I? I've an issue with something from one of the NICE companies. Silly old me! I should remember to stick to kicking Waves, NI, IK and Spectrasonics in future, which is perfectly fine and will give me lots of likes! Yum!

FWIW here's how that Soundtoys customer service thing could have gone...

I see your license is old from the version 1 days. You can upgrade to the latest v5 at a discount, please log in to see your price. Alternatively you can use a legacy installer INSERT LINK HERE - though please note this is unsupported by us.

Is that wildly unreasonable?

I've no clue what - if any - difference there is between v1 and v5 for me. I'm not asking for free upgrades in fact, I just want what I have to keep working as literally every one of my several hundred other plugins has done. Hell I would even pay a ten or twenty buck admin fee for it so the few legacy projects I have will open okay. It's just from my perspective $40 just to do this feels money-grabbing.

To all of you with the pitchforks out for me who has broken the KVR code - I do find it interesting that not a single person has attempted to explain why Waves are still evil here while lovely Soundtoys must be defended with guns. Waves have given away free full products every year for decades, and they keep access to installing them. Not so, seemingly, with Soundtoys, and yet I'm literally the Bad Guy. (Can I appropriate Billie Eilish for my new forum name?)

BTW, Ive looked and although I've kept a ton of old installers for many years, I don't seem to have kept this one. I know, what a complete imbecile I am!

[revvy]

KVR code. Don’t be an imbecile. Change forum name to a successful artist.

Nailed it

[gaggle of hermits]

I love how a single support interaction makes a supplier inexorably evil. if you're a full bundle owner and upgraded to v5 around 2016, you've only had one 30-bucks upgrade since, which was for the optional superplate.

if you're not a bundle owner, this situation probably looks a lot less attractive. this is not a major surprise.

Soundtoys could probably do a better job of providing access to archived installers but the original microshift giveaway dates back more than a decade I'm not surprised there's an update charge. also, is that $40 for little microshift or the upgrade to microshift? I dunno, it was pretty obvious at the time it was a loss leader with the expectation people would upgrade. I don't know why you're shocked by this.

and finally if you weren't so adamant this single incident is a "reputation killer" you'd probably get a lot less pushback.

[whyterabbyt]

Here's the thing. At no point did Soundtoys ever say to me "just a heads up - this thing is coming towards EOL, from here it's a paid product".

Why would they need to? Its not a perpetually free product, its part of a product that's sold for $99.

At least Waves are upfront about what you're covered for and when - paid or free (yes they give free products too). They send a message when the WUP is about to expire.
And if it does expire, they still give you acesss to legacy installers, so if you can install them on your OS - as I could only this week - you're good to go. (it was a faff, but it got done).

If you've got an old product, and newer versions have come out, then its obvious that your old version may not function on newer OSes and platforms forever.

And you're saying you can install and use your existing version. Yet you still see yourself as entitled to any upgrade for free as well?

As it was, the first I heard about this with Soundtoys was an error message saying an administator has blocked me from installing my product.

An old bit of software produced an inadequate error message on an OS it was never written for? Shocking. Those SoundToys guys clearly planned this years in advance.

Unlock code - $39.

Nah, that wasnt the error message, that's just you being disingenuous.

And yet Waves are the bad guys, and Soundtoys are wonderful.

Waves would also make me pay to upgrade my v9 and v10 freebies to v14 so I could run them on win10 as VST3 or whatever. I dont think either of them are bad guys because of that. Maybe Ive not just got the same sense of entitlement to gifts.
If someone bought me a pint, I wouldnt expect free refills for life.

[whyterabbyt]

By the way, since I still have a couple of V1 plugins listed under my account, here's the means to derive the link to the installer you said you needed.

https://storage.googleapis.com/soundtoy ... name_here-

Ive just downloaded LittleMicroShift64_443.exe, if you're still having problems, let me know and I'll put on DB for you.

[martinjuenke]

Free stuff = free sh*t
There is no free lunch.

[jens]

Oh dear, I really have broken the KVR code, haven't I? I've an issue with something from one of the NICE companies. Silly old me!

Yeah, it's always been like that 'round these parts. I once made the mistake of criticizing Voxengo (during the height of their popularity i.e. about fiveteen years or so ago) for what I found to be a shady business-tactic and people would fight over who'd be allowed to donate their tar and feathers...

be glad that this is just Soundtoys and not U-He or your house would be on fire by now.

[jens]

Oh dear, I really have broken the KVR code, haven't I? I've an issue with something from one of the

I've no clue what - if any - difference there is between v1 and v5 for me. I'm not asking for free upgrades in fact, I just want what I have to keep working as literally every one of my several hundred other plugins has done.

So did you try an older installer by now? If it works - as has to be assumed at this point - the only mistake their support made would be to not have advised you to use this or that older installer in case you don't want to upgrade.

[concealed identity]

Am I missing something, or is everyone misreading this person's posts and not understanding that their issue is they can't access the installer for the product they own? That seems like a totally reasonable thing to be upset about. I think the actual KVR code is that every thread needs at least one angry poster with a terrible take.

[whyterabbyt]

Am I missing something, or is everyone misreading this person's posts and not understanding that their issue is they can't access the installer for the product they own?

No, I just think they're reading the entirety of the posts. For example, the title of the thread, the bits about the upgrade price, the mention of Waves and other companies, the fact that access to the installer isnt actually mentioned at all in the actual first post yada yada

You do get that the OP doesnt even realise they dont have a copy of that installer until page 2, right?

Anyway, it can be accessed, as Ive already said.

[noiseboyuk]

By the way, since I still have a couple of V1 plugins listed under my account, here's the means to derive the link to the installer you said you needed.

https://storage.googleapis.com/soundtoy ... name_here-

Ive just downloaded LittleMicroShift64_443.exe, if you're still having problems, let me know and I'll put on DB for you.

Thanks that's most kind - I'm getting an error there "This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it", but that installer really is all I need. Again, many thanks.

[noiseboyuk]

Am I missing something, or is everyone misreading this person's posts and not understanding that their issue is they can't access the installer for the product they own?

No, I just think they're reading the entirety of the posts. For example, the title of the thread, the bits about the upgrade price, the mention of Waves and other companies, the fact that access to the installer isnt actually mentioned at all in the actual first post yada yada

You do get that the OP doesnt even realise they dont have a copy of that installer until page 2, right?

Anyway, it can be accessed, as Ive already said.

What I've done with the W11 install is to go for latest installers across the board for obvious compatibility reasons. In 98% of cases that's all worked great across multiple devs. In a few odd cases - like Waves - I've needed to get specific old installers which they have provided. It has involved jumping through hoops but I got there fine.

In the case of Soundtoys I have three plugins - the others are Little Alter Boy and Little Plate. I downloaded the installers of all three from the website, and the other two installed without issue. The only exception was Little Microshift which generated an error code as pasted in the OP. It wasn't clear why this was so I contacted support. Only then did I realise that apparently this plugin was an earlier version than the other two.

All of which makes me think the OP is just fine. Support never gave me any option other than pay for v5 which almost certainly I don't actually need, or pay for bigger packages. Others may disagree, I think that's a poor support experience which casts the company in a completely unnecessary bad light.

If anyone would like to explain to me why support were perfectly right and proper to say I have to pay to unlock rather than pointing me at installers I have a license for, by all means go ahead.

[concealed identity]

Am I missing something, or is everyone misreading this person's posts and not understanding that their issue is they can't access the installer for the product they own?

No, I just think they're reading the entirety of the posts. For example, the title of the thread, the bits about the upgrade price, the mention of Waves and other companies, the fact that access to the installer isnt actually mentioned at all in the actual first post yada yada

You do get that the OP doesnt even realise they dont have a copy of that installer until page 2, right?

Anyway, it can be accessed, as Ive already said.

The first post mentioned that support told them "Unfortunately, our V1 software is no longer supported so you will have to upgrade to V5 in order to use this license on a new device."

[gaggle of hermits]

If anyone would like to explain to me why support were perfectly right and proper to say I have to pay to unlock rather than pointing me at installers I have a license for, by all means go ahead.

have you considered they may have assumed you tried the old installer (which you don't have but they don't know that because tech support are only infrequently clairvoyant) and so tried the newer installer? which would have made that the obvious response. it's also possible they know as the original is now a decade old, maybe it doesn't play nice on w11.

you may have assumed the only option offered to you was a paid upgrade but as they said "any other questions" at the end, the obvious question seems to be "could you direct me to the original installer as I don't think I really need the new one and just lost the old one?"

but, whatever, knock yourself out, go full Karen.

[noiseboyuk]

To both the above - there's no room for error on their wording though is there? "you will have to upgrade to V5 in order to use this license on a new device." Since they said "have to", why would I even think to ask for an older installer?

So I have to pay $39, which is exactly what the OP and title says. Even though in reality there's every chance the older installer will work fine - I installed one plugin that goes back at least 15 years and it worked first time, Windows is actually pretty tolerant it seems.

But let's put all that to one side. I have sympathy with the idea that keeping old products supported needs time and money. Soundtoys may not want to give out old installers that cause problems that they then have to support. Fair enough.

I just checked, and to get the WUP - the most evil scheme any developer has yet devised - for my oldest Waves plugin is $12. Yet I'm told to be grateful that paying $39 to Soundtoys for one plugin is a wonderful deal and I'm an entitled prick?