This stupid Canadian completely ignored the contents of the parentheses!soft synth market
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
It might also be interesting to note how 'open hardware platforms' such as the Muse Research Receptor and OpenLabs Neko et al are doing with all this software? Are users of these devices cramming it with software as we so often do with our PC's, or are they relatively happy with their Pro53, FM7, CP80, and V-Station on board? Does anything more louse up the playability and are worse off than a old lappy? Are these devices far superior to PC's and Mac's? Is the software market planning on catering to these devices moreso than PC's, or will it cause them to refine their codes to be more reliant and conservative for these devices?
And what do these devices hold in the way of security? Will the only thing that saves ALL software dev's is to code for an external platform and burn onto a unique Click Card to sell and load?
I think all dev's are feeling 'the pinch' due to piracy, complacency, apathy, and just the limits of technology still. From the flood I witnessed here a few years ago, to the bi-yearly releases now, there does not seem to be much room for 'breakthrough runaway successes' anymore. Even the last few N.I. things I tried - Metaphysical Function, and Carbon, interesting ideas... But HUGE CPU consumption. Nice that they were 'free', but does that instill confidence in a bloke like me?
On the other hand, I'm a big fan of Crystal, and would gladly pay a nominal fee if Glenn could stream it down to be less CPU intense. I'd chuck the freebie and pop in that bird tout sweet. 
SmEx's Ioplong Slifty I offered to pay money for - if I had a guarantee that bugs would be addressed when I do so - no response yet. So it's funny how it goes - I'm sure many here are likewise with different yet similar situations themselves. Is or can anyone do anything about this - big or small dev's? Is the technology going to change while companies try to remedy these problems? Will the price point be outrageous due to hours and labor someone like Glenn per say put in, compared to a group of 15 or more N.I. dev's that could do it in a third of the time but at 4 times the cost? And lastly, should R&D still stand for 'Research And Development' or 'Refine And Debug' in order for ALL companies to stay 'proggressive'.
I myself am still torn if I bought my lappy to 'control music with' or 'make music with'? Being in music for a long time, the ramifications of that question is pretty big. I wanted to harness a sound and style I had developed with my hardware primarily - to record, effect, master and produce a CD, 'control my music' with. What has since happened is all the VSTi's and DXi's and Host's I've acquired, free, paid for, illegitimate - I'm using my hardware less, and just exploring tones and rythems with them on my lappy now. It made for exciting new music, and lead me in new directions for sure... But I'm getting slightly 'homesick' now.
I'm not sure about others here, but I think there's a growing empathy of just going back to 'simpler times', just a good beat, organ, and a guitar track. Or maybe just one or three really good synths - and explore ALL the ambient/techno/electronica they can with those?
And my final thought (ala Jerry Springer, and here comes the fist fight...) I think the greatest promoter AND, let me re-emphasis 'AND' the greatest crippler to ALL software music development today.
KVR. We all treat software like 'Rock star celebrities' here - from William Hung 'breakthroughs' to established old pro's with great track records. We treat Crystal like we listen to Moby, we regard N.I. like Kraftwerk, and if I mention Ethnosphere - it's as good as saying Les Rita Mitsouko at a wedding reception. We all listen and try, but our tastes are obviously biased. And we are free to promote and criticise here ad nauseum over major and minor flaws and faves 24/7.
If Eric Clapton just discovered a Fender Strat in a shop and came here to ask our opinions on it, he might buy 1 - and use it occasionally. That's the damage and protection KVR is to ALL the dev's today.
Nothing can be done - it's just the way it is. Bones has his opinions, I have mine, vurt his, and so on.
To a newcomer coming in wanting to buy a synth or effect to play hip hop or country music with - we must be the most useless bunch of help for that person. Can ALL the synths and effects be used for hip hop - Of course! Are we all just going to recommend the 'free stuff' for the person to get 'used to' on? The majority of us - yes. After trying the free stuff, will the person go out and try and buy thousands of dollars worth of software, no.
Yet we have ads for Real Guitars for $xxx, Phat sounds to Wicked Beats for Utonic, Harptime from Dash Signature - and we all kinda sit back and say 'Oooh yeah, those things!'. Yet if KVR didn't exist with a forum, there'd be 25-40% more sales ACROSS THE BOARD I feel. (Don't get no ideas now Ben!
) Being in the music software game severely frightens me! 
I just want to go back 'making music' myself.
And what do these devices hold in the way of security? Will the only thing that saves ALL software dev's is to code for an external platform and burn onto a unique Click Card to sell and load?
I think all dev's are feeling 'the pinch' due to piracy, complacency, apathy, and just the limits of technology still. From the flood I witnessed here a few years ago, to the bi-yearly releases now, there does not seem to be much room for 'breakthrough runaway successes' anymore. Even the last few N.I. things I tried - Metaphysical Function, and Carbon, interesting ideas... But HUGE CPU consumption. Nice that they were 'free', but does that instill confidence in a bloke like me?
On the other hand, I'm a big fan of Crystal, and would gladly pay a nominal fee if Glenn could stream it down to be less CPU intense. I'd chuck the freebie and pop in that bird tout sweet. SmEx's Ioplong Slifty I offered to pay money for - if I had a guarantee that bugs would be addressed when I do so - no response yet. So it's funny how it goes - I'm sure many here are likewise with different yet similar situations themselves. Is or can anyone do anything about this - big or small dev's? Is the technology going to change while companies try to remedy these problems? Will the price point be outrageous due to hours and labor someone like Glenn per say put in, compared to a group of 15 or more N.I. dev's that could do it in a third of the time but at 4 times the cost? And lastly, should R&D still stand for 'Research And Development' or 'Refine And Debug' in order for ALL companies to stay 'proggressive'. I myself am still torn if I bought my lappy to 'control music with' or 'make music with'? Being in music for a long time, the ramifications of that question is pretty big. I wanted to harness a sound and style I had developed with my hardware primarily - to record, effect, master and produce a CD, 'control my music' with. What has since happened is all the VSTi's and DXi's and Host's I've acquired, free, paid for, illegitimate - I'm using my hardware less, and just exploring tones and rythems with them on my lappy now. It made for exciting new music, and lead me in new directions for sure... But I'm getting slightly 'homesick' now.
I'm not sure about others here, but I think there's a growing empathy of just going back to 'simpler times', just a good beat, organ, and a guitar track. Or maybe just one or three really good synths - and explore ALL the ambient/techno/electronica they can with those?
And my final thought (ala Jerry Springer, and here comes the fist fight...) I think the greatest promoter AND, let me re-emphasis 'AND' the greatest crippler to ALL software music development today.
KVR. We all treat software like 'Rock star celebrities' here - from William Hung 'breakthroughs' to established old pro's with great track records. We treat Crystal like we listen to Moby, we regard N.I. like Kraftwerk, and if I mention Ethnosphere - it's as good as saying Les Rita Mitsouko at a wedding reception. We all listen and try, but our tastes are obviously biased. And we are free to promote and criticise here ad nauseum over major and minor flaws and faves 24/7.
If Eric Clapton just discovered a Fender Strat in a shop and came here to ask our opinions on it, he might buy 1 - and use it occasionally. That's the damage and protection KVR is to ALL the dev's today.
Nothing can be done - it's just the way it is. Bones has his opinions, I have mine, vurt his, and so on.
To a newcomer coming in wanting to buy a synth or effect to play hip hop or country music with - we must be the most useless bunch of help for that person. Can ALL the synths and effects be used for hip hop - Of course! Are we all just going to recommend the 'free stuff' for the person to get 'used to' on? The majority of us - yes. After trying the free stuff, will the person go out and try and buy thousands of dollars worth of software, no.
Yet we have ads for Real Guitars for $xxx, Phat sounds to Wicked Beats for Utonic, Harptime from Dash Signature - and we all kinda sit back and say 'Oooh yeah, those things!'. Yet if KVR didn't exist with a forum, there'd be 25-40% more sales ACROSS THE BOARD I feel. (Don't get no ideas now Ben!
) Being in the music software game severely frightens me! I just want to go back 'making music' myself.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
hmmmnnn ...
... interesting but flawed arguments there steve i think ...
... more tomorrow when im more lucid ...
slainte rob
... interesting but flawed arguments there steve i think ...
... more tomorrow when im more lucid ...
slainte
rob
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
Didn't mean to be 'beating up on KVR' there Rob.
Just merely to point out that it's almost as critical as say The U.S. Presidential Debates maybe?
And true, we don't always beat up and disect every piece that comes through here - we can be nice sometimes (even Bones! ) But I'm surprised many times what I think would be a 'good synth' gets scathed by a mention of a little flaw by someone, and a synth/effect that has many bugs from the get go get's good praise by us 'because of the sound atleast'. And sometimes - it works out just right.
And nothing wrong with anyone wanting to jump in with a freebie here, good or bad. But to seriously consider it as a lucrative 'career'? I feel for WilliamK and Liqih and Dash Signature atleast. I think William may have had some 'lofty' ideas at the time - and nothing wrong with that. Liqih on the other hand seems to handle it more as a 'sideline' project it seems? Maybe he's got a 'day job' or other source of income, and Dash Signature just gives him drink money now?
But the price margins of synths and effects are so wide as well. It's like walking in a car dealer, seeing a pimped out ride with hemi engine, and boombox stereo with a price tag of $49.95 - then look over and see something that looks as bland as a K-Car for $599.95?
And then some stranger out in the lot say "Pssst, you want the best of both worlds... For FREE buddy?" And after the cops arrive and shake him down for being a pirate, a copy of Synth Edit falls out of his trench coat and his passport says 'Dr. Tikov'. 
Just really really frightening IMHO. I'd rather walk into a Old West Saloon and ask for a Watermelon Martini, than trying to start or even join 'The Native Instruments Reservation' or the 'Synth Edit Posse', or even mess with the brutal and sadistic 'Dash Signature Gang'!
Just merely to point out that it's almost as critical as say The U.S. Presidential Debates maybe?
And true, we don't always beat up and disect every piece that comes through here - we can be nice sometimes (even Bones!
) But I'm surprised many times what I think would be a 'good synth' gets scathed by a mention of a little flaw by someone, and a synth/effect that has many bugs from the get go get's good praise by us 'because of the sound atleast'. And sometimes - it works out just right. And nothing wrong with anyone wanting to jump in with a freebie here, good or bad. But to seriously consider it as a lucrative 'career'?
I feel for WilliamK and Liqih and Dash Signature atleast. I think William may have had some 'lofty' ideas at the time - and nothing wrong with that. Liqih on the other hand seems to handle it more as a 'sideline' project it seems? Maybe he's got a 'day job' or other source of income, and Dash Signature just gives him drink money now? But the price margins of synths and effects are so wide as well. It's like walking in a car dealer, seeing a pimped out ride with hemi engine, and boombox stereo with a price tag of $49.95 - then look over and see something that looks as bland as a K-Car for $599.95?
And then some stranger out in the lot say "Pssst, you want the best of both worlds... For FREE buddy?" And after the cops arrive and shake him down for being a pirate, a copy of Synth Edit falls out of his trench coat and his passport says 'Dr. Tikov'. Just really really frightening IMHO. I'd rather walk into a Old West Saloon and ask for a Watermelon Martini, than trying to start or even join 'The Native Instruments Reservation' or the 'Synth Edit Posse', or even mess with the brutal and sadistic 'Dash Signature Gang'!
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- u-he
- 30213 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Maybe he's got earsSteven West wrote:After trying the free stuff, will the person go out and try and buy thousands of dollars worth of software, no.
Maybe he wants a good workflow/performance or that certain sound.Fortunately a great software setup doesn't cost thousands of dollars nowadays, although it may well be worth a multiple of that, at least compared to last century.
Some code freebies just to promote themselves, i.e. to get contract jobs. Or they start out with freebies and a day job before they seriously enter the market...And nothing wrong with anyone wanting to jump in with a freebie here, good or bad. But to seriously consider it as a lucrative 'career'?
However, hardly any soft synth developer would consider his job a lucrative career. It's more like 'make a decent living with lots of fun'.
From the money perspective, you can start a better career with a cheapware that displays the weather forecast in the task bar, with an upgrade that correlates this to the stock exchange turbulences. But that's not a synth, nor will you get much of that feedback and vibe from places like KvR.
And when you hear a song of one of your favourite musicians using the software you made, you're in plug dev heaven. Nothing can beat that, not even a more lucrative career.
Urs-
- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
I guess you're right Urs. I come from the old 'skilled trades' background I guess? Do a job, and that one job is all you do. But maybe now with software and all - like you say, maybe someone makes SE or other synths AND makes ad banners, net sites, weather software, etc. as well? Multi-tasking software career - that's not so bad?
But to forecast the future of all this stuff, I certainly can't 'put my finger on it'? I hope program codes and hardware improves, yet I'm pretty happy with everything so far? If tommorrow all audio manufacturers agree CD's will be 32bit/96khz only, and we all need to buy new players/recorders - I'm not going to be THAT excited. Or if Steinberg/Yamaha/AMD announce they have a system and software of a unique motherboard that makes a PC as dedicated and reliable as playing the best hardware synth.... It might be nice for the rich folks I suppose? I really just have no clue on what the future holds for development and/or support thereof anymore.
The other thing I feel REALLY quilty about is not paying enough respect when I post a song here or elsewhere. I try to credit all the dev's and their software, but am maybe only covering 25-50% at the time? I'll mention I used some new Krakli synth, but forget to mention I ran it through a KlangLabs effect? Praise SmEx effects for chopping all my music up, but forget to say I was using N.I's Pro53, FM7 to make the music before it was chopped up? Just so much going in and out of Orion for me, I rarely 'keep up with it all'.
But then again, Brian Eno or David Bowie never went on in Hit Parader or Rolling Stone about all the gear they used? Maybe in Keyboard mag or other techie thing. And even then, Brian Eno would maybe describe who he spent years making DX7 sounds - but never mention all the effects and processors the DDX7 went through to really make that sound come alive? Did he wish he had? Did it hurt Behringer or Lexicon sales that he didn't? Hardly. But the software market seems somehow different? It's like the Titanic is sinking, and we're all trying to pull as many dev's into the lifeboats as possible?
Credit due where credit due - but I always have this dread "What if SmEx decides to disband and move on? Was it because I didn't promote them enough? Give them enough money?" And regardless if Bram makes really good stuff on his own, or DFX guys 'override' him with new stuff - I'm forever going to hold on to the old stuff like the ancient sea scrolls.
I guess with hardware, one can still find and buy a old Arp Omni or Yamaha CS-15 and all. And if it breaks down, buy a fuse at Radio Shack, or take it to some electronics whiz to get a Kenton MIDI retrofit installed and all that. Software - even if it's say Crystal, and I think I did hear there's no further developments planned for it, which is good in one way... But maybe it's not compatible in 2-5 years due to VST2.5 or MEGA-DX, WindowsYZ and all? Maybe by then Crystal maybe comperpable to a Casio RapMan - or maybe it itself will be in the same esteem as a Arp Omni is today? Then what?
But to forecast the future of all this stuff, I certainly can't 'put my finger on it'? I hope program codes and hardware improves, yet I'm pretty happy with everything so far? If tommorrow all audio manufacturers agree CD's will be 32bit/96khz only, and we all need to buy new players/recorders - I'm not going to be THAT excited. Or if Steinberg/Yamaha/AMD announce they have a system and software of a unique motherboard that makes a PC as dedicated and reliable as playing the best hardware synth.... It might be nice for the rich folks I suppose? I really just have no clue on what the future holds for development and/or support thereof anymore.
The other thing I feel REALLY quilty about is not paying enough respect when I post a song here or elsewhere.
I try to credit all the dev's and their software, but am maybe only covering 25-50% at the time? I'll mention I used some new Krakli synth, but forget to mention I ran it through a KlangLabs effect? Praise SmEx effects for chopping all my music up, but forget to say I was using N.I's Pro53, FM7 to make the music before it was chopped up? Just so much going in and out of Orion for me, I rarely 'keep up with it all'. But then again, Brian Eno or David Bowie never went on in Hit Parader or Rolling Stone about all the gear they used? Maybe in Keyboard mag or other techie thing. And even then, Brian Eno would maybe describe who he spent years making DX7 sounds - but never mention all the effects and processors the DDX7 went through to really make that sound come alive? Did he wish he had? Did it hurt Behringer or Lexicon sales that he didn't? Hardly. But the software market seems somehow different? It's like the Titanic is sinking, and we're all trying to pull as many dev's into the lifeboats as possible?
Credit due where credit due - but I always have this dread "What if SmEx decides to disband and move on? Was it because I didn't promote them enough? Give them enough money?" And regardless if Bram makes really good stuff on his own, or DFX guys 'override' him with new stuff - I'm forever going to hold on to the old stuff like the ancient sea scrolls.
I guess with hardware, one can still find and buy a old Arp Omni or Yamaha CS-15 and all. And if it breaks down, buy a fuse at Radio Shack, or take it to some electronics whiz to get a Kenton MIDI retrofit installed and all that. Software - even if it's say Crystal, and I think I did hear there's no further developments planned for it, which is good in one way... But maybe it's not compatible in 2-5 years due to VST2.5 or MEGA-DX, WindowsYZ and all? Maybe by then Crystal maybe comperpable to a Casio RapMan - or maybe it itself will be in the same esteem as a Arp Omni is today? Then what?
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
I find your post Steven is giving me a caffeine rush. Feels a bit like autopilot overdrive.
I don't think we as end users really need to worry about the future of an industry so much, that'll sort itself out when time comes. I think Urs' resentment of freeware developers is a good indication that times are tough on the development side, but for plain old music makers, times are great. So many choices availabe, so many tools tailor-made to fit a need. Make the best is all we can do.
I don't think we need to worry too much about software dying out, all things die out eventually, and are then replaced. Old hardware synths can be really expensive to repair, and often just burn out forever. I don't regret not having my Atari ST any more, it served its use and then it was time to move on.
I think your point on the sens of required gratitutde felt by users is right on, and possibly is most likely a by-product of us being frequent participants here in the holy temple of VST. But it's strange, look at the recent TbT deadstop. No matter how much people praised the software in thread after thread, Daniel still pulled them in the end, seemingly blaming the end user bad vibes he got.
As a musician, I can't be arsed to worry about other people's headspace. Tools are useful, but try not to rely on them too much that you're stuck without them.
Cheers,
Steve
I don't think we as end users really need to worry about the future of an industry so much, that'll sort itself out when time comes. I think Urs' resentment of freeware developers is a good indication that times are tough on the development side, but for plain old music makers, times are great. So many choices availabe, so many tools tailor-made to fit a need. Make the best is all we can do.
I don't think we need to worry too much about software dying out, all things die out eventually, and are then replaced. Old hardware synths can be really expensive to repair, and often just burn out forever. I don't regret not having my Atari ST any more, it served its use and then it was time to move on.
I think your point on the sens of required gratitutde felt by users is right on, and possibly is most likely a by-product of us being frequent participants here in the holy temple of VST. But it's strange, look at the recent TbT deadstop. No matter how much people praised the software in thread after thread, Daniel still pulled them in the end, seemingly blaming the end user bad vibes he got.
As a musician, I can't be arsed to worry about other people's headspace. Tools are useful, but try not to rely on them too much that you're stuck without them.
Cheers,
Steve
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
One thing to go along with Urs take on freeware, drives me blinkers around here when someone asks "Hey all the stuff I've tried sucks, I'm looking for the best [insert whatever]. Can anyone help (oh BTW it has to be free)"
Free stuff is always nice, and sometimes it is better than anything out there, but there are times when quality comes with a price tag.
Maybe a sad thing to have to admit for some, but it would be foolish to assume that all your problems will be solved without any cost to you.
Cheers,
Steve
Free stuff is always nice, and sometimes it is better than anything out there, but there are times when quality comes with a price tag.
Maybe a sad thing to have to admit for some, but it would be foolish to assume that all your problems will be solved without any cost to you.
Cheers,
Steve
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- KVRist
- 368 posts since 3 May, 2002 from Canberra, Australia
It can be annoying to see people want "the best" for free. I personally put it down to the occident's increasingly disposable society.shamann wrote:One thing to go along with Urs take on freeware, drives me blinkers around here when someone asks "Hey all the stuff I've tried sucks, I'm looking for the best [insert whatever]. Can anyone help (oh BTW it has to be free)"
Free stuff is always nice, and sometimes it is better than anything out there, but there are times when quality comes with a price tag.
Maybe a sad thing to have to admit for some, but it would be foolish to assume that all your problems will be solved without any cost to you.
In my own situation I often look for freeware in order to learn something. For example, I don't know how to program FM worth a damn. If I wanted to work on that (which I will one day - first I need to be able to program subtractive worth a damn
), I'd look for the best quality free FM synth around. Once I've got the hang of programming FM, I'm then in a position to demo commercial offerings and make an informed decision on what to buy. I may decide that I like the freebie one best, but at least I was able to learn about underlying sound structure and form an opinion from there.I feel that free stuff is a valuable stepping stone. I greatly appreciate and respect all commercial devs who also offer basic freeware synths. Sure, they are using the freebies as a hook but they are helping beginners at the same time. In fact, my first two soft synth purchases were greatly influenced by the fact that the same devs offered good quality freeware.
The same goes for pure freeware devs. I think it is madness to think that freeware does not have a place (and I would be surprised if anyone here did think that freeware had no place). It might distort the market some, but I'm a firm believer that, in the long run, quality will win out.
But I'm just rambling off-topic now...
My $0.02 worth anyway...
-s
A suffusion of yellow...
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
Perhaps, I tend to feel it is people's galling sense of entitlement, but one may be at the root of the other.smp wrote:It can be annoying to see people want "the best" for free. I personally put it down to the occident's increasingly disposable society.
As for your other points, I agree with you fully.
One of the things I was thinking was that it seems disrespectful of the developers when the 'best for free' demands are made. I love and use freeware, and admire those who offer it as a public gift, and think people get it wrong when they dismiss it, but at the other end some people seem ready to deny a programmer the ability to try to make a living just for their own selfish reasons. Some things will always cost money because some things are harder to make than others.
Cheers,
Steve
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- KVRist
- 368 posts since 3 May, 2002 from Canberra, Australia
Personally, I feel that the two are strongly related. I'm continually horrifed and highly irritated by the capacity of people to demand something for free just because they don't feel like paying for it. Maybe I just notice it more these days, but it seems like it's more prevalent than it used to be.shamann wrote:Perhaps, I tend to feel it is people's galling sense of entitlement, but one may be at the root of the other.smp wrote:It can be annoying to see people want "the best" for free. I personally put it down to the occident's increasingly disposable society.
I agree completely. I'd go on some more about it, but I feel like this thread has become hijacked somewhat (besides, I think agreeing with people is outlawed somewhere in the KvR constitutionAs for your other points, I agree with you fully.
One of the things I was thinking was that it seems disrespectful of the developers when the 'best for free' demands are made. I love and use freeware, and admire those who offer it as a public gift, and think people get it wrong when they dismiss it, but at the other end some people seem ready to deny a programmer the ability to try to make a living just for their own selfish reasons. Some things will always cost money because some things are harder to make than others.
).-s
A suffusion of yellow...
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- KVRAF
- 1981 posts since 26 Oct, 2003 from Toronto
The one that get's me is say a host like Orion. It's pretty well a self suffcient studio in itself. All types of synths, samplers, drums, effects, and so on. AND with the ability to use VST's, DX's, ReWire, and numerous sample formats. I'm VERY happy with it, and though it looks near perfect, there's a few glitches and bugs to be ironed out. I hate bringing up 'this or that' at the Synapse forum, but they are things I've come across that I either wish was there, or can't make it work if I do find it - fine.
But alot of users come in with these lofty ideas, and usually site other hosts being able to do all these wonderous things - that blows my mind! That's like asking "Why doesn't Pro53 have FM? Why can't I make my FM7 sound 'analog'?" 
But they cite Reason, FL, ProTools, Cakewalk, Logic - so I guess these people have all these things somewhere, and want Orion to be just like them?
And no doubt they go out and buy a Pro53 AND a Profit5 just to compare? So there's alot of 'duplicates' happening now - hosts, synths, effects. How many compressors does one need, chorus's and so on? It's great for all us to make music on, very true. But I wonder how many kids/people just start with a guitar and a Zoom beatbox these days? It seems like everyone that wants to get into music will utilise their computer as well. They know more how to record and manage music long before they ever knew where a C on a keyboard is.
Then again, James Hetfield of Metalica couldn't tell you the notes on a guitar neck. He just knows how to play them. But that's just 'raw talent', computers and software - even though I hear some great music from newbies and pros here... I'm not so sure about the 'raw talent' aspect with it all? It's almost TOO easy for amateur to pro to whip off music with all this stuff now? And as vurt said about N.I's Metaphysical Function - 'something like that could put me out of business!'
So there's another future aspect to consider. Select 'Logic Suite' in Orion, load 'Rock Band' select tempo, and just press play. Sounds like something already done, just hit 'mutate' and see how that sounds?
But alot of users come in with these lofty ideas, and usually site other hosts being able to do all these wonderous things - that blows my mind!
That's like asking "Why doesn't Pro53 have FM? Why can't I make my FM7 sound 'analog'?" But they cite Reason, FL, ProTools, Cakewalk, Logic - so I guess these people have all these things somewhere, and want Orion to be just like them?
And no doubt they go out and buy a Pro53 AND a Profit5 just to compare? So there's alot of 'duplicates' happening now - hosts, synths, effects. How many compressors does one need, chorus's and so on? It's great for all us to make music on, very true. But I wonder how many kids/people just start with a guitar and a Zoom beatbox these days? It seems like everyone that wants to get into music will utilise their computer as well. They know more how to record and manage music long before they ever knew where a C on a keyboard is.
Then again, James Hetfield of Metalica couldn't tell you the notes on a guitar neck. He just knows how to play them.
But that's just 'raw talent', computers and software - even though I hear some great music from newbies and pros here... I'm not so sure about the 'raw talent' aspect with it all? It's almost TOO easy for amateur to pro to whip off music with all this stuff now? And as vurt said about N.I's Metaphysical Function - 'something like that could put me out of business!'So there's another future aspect to consider. Select 'Logic Suite' in Orion, load 'Rock Band' select tempo, and just press play. Sounds like something already done, just hit 'mutate' and see how that sounds?
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- KVRAF
- 9217 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from Pequot Lakes, MN
You'll also have to remember that NI has a HUGE user base-there's close to 80,000 members of the NI forums.This tends to cut down accessibilitymjones4th wrote:how available are programmers to the soft synth industry?
Most of them are very available, which is great for the users. Some are marginally available, but offer great support for their products. Then there's NI.
ew
A spectral heretic...